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It is not just "matters". It is a deeply-researched and well-engineered explicitly concurrent programming language by smart and passionate people. It is a very

It is not just "matters". It is a deeply-researched and well-engineered explicitly concurrent programming language by smart and passionate people. It is a very rare example of first-class project, compared to the common nonsense, like Java or, god forbid, NodeJS.) If it is not that popular (which is rather good) it is not a language's fault. It is due to inability to acquire and maintain an appropriate mindset. btw, there is a nice lecture - http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Erlang%2BJoe%2BArmstrong http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Erlang%2BJoe%2BA...

klibertp 14y ago
> language by smart and passionate people [...] compared to the common nonsense, like Java or, god forbid, NodeJS. Are you implying that creators of Node and Java are stupid and lack passion? It seems like you are... And it's a) not relevant here at all; b) simply not true. > It is due to inability to acquire and maintain an appropriate mindset. It's debatable, but I tend to agree here.
shtylman 14y ago
This reminds me of a great quote. "There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses" -stroustrup If you have to write about how your language matters, you have already missed the point. If it mattered, people would be using it.
- gamache 14y ago
  You make phone calls, right?
- derdesign 14y ago
  I bet you or a friend of yours chats on facebook[1] or Watsapp[2]... [1] http://www.erlang-factory.com/upload/presentations/31/EugeneLetuchy-ErlangatFacebook.pdf http://www.erlang-factory.com/upload/presentations/31/Eugene... [2] http://blog.whatsapp.com/index.php/2012/01/1-million-is-so-2011/ http://blog.whatsapp.com/index.php/2012/01/1-million-is-so-2...
confluence 14y ago
Guess you didn't get the memo that worse is better. That "common nonsense" you speak of (aka Java) runs on billions of devices and handles trillions in revenue. Erlang keeps legacy phone switches running. It's like people who say X language is amazing and lament the crap that is English. Who cares? English runs the world economy.
- klibertp 14y ago
  > Guess you didn't get the memo that worse is better. In what sense? Why do I have to paste this link: http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html here of all places?
  - confluence 14y ago
    Unix, Linux and Java just to name a few highly successful worse is better paradigms. List the number of multi-billion dollar Lisp startups - I can think of only one that comes close - ITA ($700 million), and that was bought out by a C++/Java shop, namely Google. Don't take my word for it, ask a famous Lisper: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_Better http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_Better
    - klibertp 14y ago
      The lisper follows up his essay with another: http://dreamsongs.com/Files/worse-is-worse.pdf http://dreamsongs.com/Files/worse-is-worse.pdf (this IS written by Richard Gabriel, only under pseudonym, look at your wiki article: "Gabriel later answered his earlier essay with one titled Worse Is Better Is Worse[3] under the pseudonym "Nickieben Bourbaki" (an allusion to Nicolas Bourbaki)." - last line of "Effects" section) which presents slightly different opinion :) Also, I'm afraid Java is a perfect counterexample for "worse is better". It does everything and then some, but there are better (like, worse - less complicated, easier to use, more focused) solutions for almost everything Java does... And Java is still insanely popular. Lastly, you seem to want to equate popularity with quality, and then you give Linux as an example. Surely, Windows is better because it's installed on many more PCs than Linux?
davidw 14y ago
> If it is not that popular (which is rather good) Not popular often means you have to write libraries or code yourself that in a more popular language would already be sitting around ready to use. In other words, in a business context, it might cost you more money to use a less popular language. > it is not a language's fault I don't agree. I think for instance that Erlang could likely have a more C like syntax, and that would have bought it more users. There's plenty of other stuff that you can do to make a learning curve relatively easy, so that people can slowly start out and get to know a language. Of course there are factors beyond the control of a language's designers and proponents, but looking at things like PHP and Ruby, you can certainly get popular without, say, having huge corporate backing.
- klibertp 14y ago
  > Erlang could likely have a more C like syntax [...] so that people can slowly start out and get to know a language This reminded me about famous Linus rant against C++ - in the same vein it can be argued that "cryptic" (actually very readable and consistent IMHO) syntax would be a win even if it did nothing more than keep C (style) programmers out of Erlang development :) You're certainly right from business perspective, however.
pdog 14y ago
In what way is Java not a first-class project? That "common nonsense" had some of the greatest minds in computing behind it.

klibertp 14y ago

> language by smart and passionate people [...] compared to the common nonsense, like Java or, god forbid, NodeJS. Are you implying that creators of Node and Java are stupid and lack passion? It seems like you are... And it's a) not relevant here at all; b) simply not true. > It is due to inability to acquire and maintain an appropriate mindset. It's debatable, but I tend to agree here.

shtylman 14y ago

This reminds me of a great quote. "There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses" -stroustrup If you have to write about how your language matters, you have already missed the point. If it mattered, people would be using it.

gamache 14y ago
You make phone calls, right?
derdesign 14y ago
I bet you or a friend of yours chats on facebook[1] or Watsapp[2]... [1] http://www.erlang-factory.com/upload/presentations/31/EugeneLetuchy-ErlangatFacebook.pdf http://www.erlang-factory.com/upload/presentations/31/Eugene... [2] http://blog.whatsapp.com/index.php/2012/01/1-million-is-so-2011/ http://blog.whatsapp.com/index.php/2012/01/1-million-is-so-2...

confluence 14y ago

Guess you didn't get the memo that worse is better. That "common nonsense" you speak of (aka Java) runs on billions of devices and handles trillions in revenue. Erlang keeps legacy phone switches running. It's like people who say X language is amazing and lament the crap that is English. Who cares? English runs the world economy.

klibertp 14y ago
> Guess you didn't get the memo that worse is better. In what sense? Why do I have to paste this link: http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html here of all places?
- confluence 14y ago
  Unix, Linux and Java just to name a few highly successful worse is better paradigms. List the number of multi-billion dollar Lisp startups - I can think of only one that comes close - ITA ($700 million), and that was bought out by a C++/Java shop, namely Google. Don't take my word for it, ask a famous Lisper: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_Better http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_Better
  - klibertp 14y ago
    The lisper follows up his essay with another: http://dreamsongs.com/Files/worse-is-worse.pdf http://dreamsongs.com/Files/worse-is-worse.pdf (this IS written by Richard Gabriel, only under pseudonym, look at your wiki article: "Gabriel later answered his earlier essay with one titled Worse Is Better Is Worse[3] under the pseudonym "Nickieben Bourbaki" (an allusion to Nicolas Bourbaki)." - last line of "Effects" section) which presents slightly different opinion :) Also, I'm afraid Java is a perfect counterexample for "worse is better". It does everything and then some, but there are better (like, worse - less complicated, easier to use, more focused) solutions for almost everything Java does... And Java is still insanely popular. Lastly, you seem to want to equate popularity with quality, and then you give Linux as an example. Surely, Windows is better because it's installed on many more PCs than Linux?

davidw 14y ago

> If it is not that popular (which is rather good) Not popular often means you have to write libraries or code yourself that in a more popular language would already be sitting around ready to use. In other words, in a business context, it might cost you more money to use a less popular language. > it is not a language's fault I don't agree. I think for instance that Erlang could likely have a more C like syntax, and that would have bought it more users. There's plenty of other stuff that you can do to make a learning curve relatively easy, so that people can slowly start out and get to know a language. Of course there are factors beyond the control of a language's designers and proponents, but looking at things like PHP and Ruby, you can certainly get popular without, say, having huge corporate backing.

klibertp 14y ago
> Erlang could likely have a more C like syntax [...] so that people can slowly start out and get to know a language This reminded me about famous Linus rant against C++ - in the same vein it can be argued that "cryptic" (actually very readable and consistent IMHO) syntax would be a win even if it did nothing more than keep C (style) programmers out of Erlang development :) You're certainly right from business perspective, however.

pdog 14y ago

In what way is Java not a first-class project? That "common nonsense" had some of the greatest minds in computing behind it.