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Interesting you say the Dev isn't a great person, because I had a hunch when I saw the use of the Lena photo on the front page (https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/a

Interesting you say the Dev isn't a great person, because I had a hunch when I saw the use of the Lena photo on the front page (https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/articles/it-s-time-to-retire-lena-from-computer-science https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/articles/it-s-time-to-retire-...). It's interesting how small gestures present how someone sees the world.

redsocksfan45 6mo ago
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miki_oomiri 6mo ago
Man… you guys are ruthless. The dude provides a free tool to use, and used a cute named, have opinions about code, and used the most common used photo on his webpage, and suddenly he gets insulted on a public forum by strangers. He's not perfect. Nobody is. He has opinions, and might not even know about Lenna. You people are gross.
- patates 6mo ago
  As a reply to this comment: > Interesting you say the Dev isn't a great person, because I had a hunch when I saw the use of the Lena photo on the front page You say: > you guys are ruthless (...) You people are gross. I'm not saying you don't have a point. I didn't know enough to be sensitive on the Lena topic once either, and could have been the target of the above comment. So I think, perhaps, those could have been formulated more constructively. However, I must say the same for your comment too. Can't we all be friends here? :)
  - fc417fc802 6mo ago
    > I didn't know enough to be sensitive on the Lena topic once either It's reactionary nonsense, there's nothing to be sensitive about. The subject of the photograph merely went along with it. There are legitimate arguments against using it as a technical benchmark in this day and age but that isn't what people get outraged over. My personal view is that the correct response to strangers trying to score social points by policing other's conduct is to defiantly do the opposite.
    - aaplok 6mo ago
      I agree that calling someone a bad person for using one of the most common test images is excessive. However, regarding this: > The subject of the photograph merely went along with it. The subject of the photograph did ask for it to no longer be used. Here's a quote from her: > I retired from modeling a long time ago. It’s time I retired from tech, too. > to defiantly do the opposite. If the policing comes from third party for virtue signalling, this is fair game. Here, I'd just suggest that respecting her wish is just common courtesy and consider someone who defiantly doesn't as a somewhat rude person. [0] https://interestingengineering.com/culture/bye-lenna-iconic-playboy-pic-banned-from-research-papers https://interestingengineering.com/culture/bye-lenna-iconic-...
      - fc417fc802 6mo ago
        Yes, I'm aware of her statement. My view is that she merely went along with what I see as reactionary nonsense as opposed to actually caring about the use of her likeness. We all have a civic duty to actively push back against the spread of polarizing reactionary movements. Even if I believed her request to be genuine I can't bring myself to view reproducing a commercial image of a professional model that's in widespread circulation as being unethical under any circumstances. Neither would I ever agree to stop distributing a well known book if one day many years later the author woke up suddenly wanting to undo its publication. If you find my viewpoint confusing or seemingly unreasonable, for reference I view projects such as Anna's Archive in a positive light. While I strongly disagree with what I perceive to be the intent behind the image being banned by many journals, I nonetheless agree with the outcome. It's an objectively poor test image for demonstrating the technical capabilities of the vast majority of modern applications. We don't benchmark modern video codecs by encoding VHS rips of classic Disney movies and we shouldn't do the equivalent for still images.
- redeeman 6mo ago
  nothing wrong with using that photo, some people just have to chill out. its like people crying snot over master branches
hagbard_c 6mo ago
Sure, you can 'see' how 'someone sees the world' just by him or her not abiding to the current narrative. You do realise that the 'Lena' image has been the standard image for these purposes for decades and that some people might not consider the (politically charged) crusade to suddenly ban it from all such use as being the most pressing issue? I think what you wrote here says more about how you see the world than how Goyal sees it.
- moritonal 6mo ago
  You're right my comment was off the cuff but I stand by it's logic. I didn't say Kovid was a terrible person, just not great. Having not done research into him specifically I just noted with the parent that certain qualities such as supposed abrasiveness often overlap with qualities I dislike, like using the Lenna image. My point is that using the Lenna image is a signal, just as you rightly point out so is my comment. I know exactly what the image is and is used for. But I also think it's sad that it's politically charged to say using a Playboy image in a literally objectifying fashion as a test-subject by a women who's requested we don't use it is bad. It's not a sudden ban, it's been an issue since ~2015. Fun fact I learnt in this, Goyal is totally open to changing it (https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/issues/661 https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/issues/661), it's simply no-one changed it. I'll see if I can, thanks for the correct call-out.
  - hagbard_c 6mo ago
    Using the 'Lena' image is only a signal for those who want to signal something. For most people it is just the standard graphic to use when presenting image processing software. There has been a movement to ban the image but that movement is most likely not nearly so widespread as some people seem to think it is. It wholly depends on which 'bubble' you are in whether using that image is a deadly sin or just daily routine. I suspect Goyal used it in the latter way, not to send some signal to the Image Inquisition.
    - moritonal 6mo ago
      I want to point out some of the language you've used. You've brought up "current narrative", "crusade", "sin" and "inquisition", when really you seem to be saying "the image doesn't signal anything and the push to remove it is overblown". I disagree with you (for example IEEE has banned it) but I do respect you believe the actual movement that disagrees with is small but influential. Instead however I would ask you look at the words you used, where they came from, who said them to you, and why you brought them up here. They are strangely charged words for a debate over a picture.

redsocksfan45 6mo ago

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miki_oomiri 6mo ago

Man… you guys are ruthless. The dude provides a free tool to use, and used a cute named, have opinions about code, and used the most common used photo on his webpage, and suddenly he gets insulted on a public forum by strangers. He's not perfect. Nobody is. He has opinions, and might not even know about Lenna. You people are gross.

patates 6mo ago
As a reply to this comment: > Interesting you say the Dev isn't a great person, because I had a hunch when I saw the use of the Lena photo on the front page You say: > you guys are ruthless (...) You people are gross. I'm not saying you don't have a point. I didn't know enough to be sensitive on the Lena topic once either, and could have been the target of the above comment. So I think, perhaps, those could have been formulated more constructively. However, I must say the same for your comment too. Can't we all be friends here? :)
- fc417fc802 6mo ago
  > I didn't know enough to be sensitive on the Lena topic once either It's reactionary nonsense, there's nothing to be sensitive about. The subject of the photograph merely went along with it. There are legitimate arguments against using it as a technical benchmark in this day and age but that isn't what people get outraged over. My personal view is that the correct response to strangers trying to score social points by policing other's conduct is to defiantly do the opposite.
  - aaplok 6mo ago
    I agree that calling someone a bad person for using one of the most common test images is excessive. However, regarding this: > The subject of the photograph merely went along with it. The subject of the photograph did ask for it to no longer be used. Here's a quote from her: > I retired from modeling a long time ago. It’s time I retired from tech, too. > to defiantly do the opposite. If the policing comes from third party for virtue signalling, this is fair game. Here, I'd just suggest that respecting her wish is just common courtesy and consider someone who defiantly doesn't as a somewhat rude person. [0] https://interestingengineering.com/culture/bye-lenna-iconic-playboy-pic-banned-from-research-papers https://interestingengineering.com/culture/bye-lenna-iconic-...
    - fc417fc802 6mo ago
      Yes, I'm aware of her statement. My view is that she merely went along with what I see as reactionary nonsense as opposed to actually caring about the use of her likeness. We all have a civic duty to actively push back against the spread of polarizing reactionary movements. Even if I believed her request to be genuine I can't bring myself to view reproducing a commercial image of a professional model that's in widespread circulation as being unethical under any circumstances. Neither would I ever agree to stop distributing a well known book if one day many years later the author woke up suddenly wanting to undo its publication. If you find my viewpoint confusing or seemingly unreasonable, for reference I view projects such as Anna's Archive in a positive light. While I strongly disagree with what I perceive to be the intent behind the image being banned by many journals, I nonetheless agree with the outcome. It's an objectively poor test image for demonstrating the technical capabilities of the vast majority of modern applications. We don't benchmark modern video codecs by encoding VHS rips of classic Disney movies and we shouldn't do the equivalent for still images.
redeeman 6mo ago
nothing wrong with using that photo, some people just have to chill out. its like people crying snot over master branches

hagbard_c 6mo ago

Sure, you can 'see' how 'someone sees the world' just by him or her not abiding to the current narrative. You do realise that the 'Lena' image has been the standard image for these purposes for decades and that some people might not consider the (politically charged) crusade to suddenly ban it from all such use as being the most pressing issue? I think what you wrote here says more about how you see the world than how Goyal sees it.

moritonal 6mo ago
You're right my comment was off the cuff but I stand by it's logic. I didn't say Kovid was a terrible person, just not great. Having not done research into him specifically I just noted with the parent that certain qualities such as supposed abrasiveness often overlap with qualities I dislike, like using the Lenna image. My point is that using the Lenna image is a signal, just as you rightly point out so is my comment. I know exactly what the image is and is used for. But I also think it's sad that it's politically charged to say using a Playboy image in a literally objectifying fashion as a test-subject by a women who's requested we don't use it is bad. It's not a sudden ban, it's been an issue since ~2015. Fun fact I learnt in this, Goyal is totally open to changing it (https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/issues/661 https://github.com/kovidgoyal/kitty/issues/661), it's simply no-one changed it. I'll see if I can, thanks for the correct call-out.
- hagbard_c 6mo ago
  Using the 'Lena' image is only a signal for those who want to signal something. For most people it is just the standard graphic to use when presenting image processing software. There has been a movement to ban the image but that movement is most likely not nearly so widespread as some people seem to think it is. It wholly depends on which 'bubble' you are in whether using that image is a deadly sin or just daily routine. I suspect Goyal used it in the latter way, not to send some signal to the Image Inquisition.
  - moritonal 6mo ago
    I want to point out some of the language you've used. You've brought up "current narrative", "crusade", "sin" and "inquisition", when really you seem to be saying "the image doesn't signal anything and the push to remove it is overblown". I disagree with you (for example IEEE has banned it) but I do respect you believe the actual movement that disagrees with is small but influential. Instead however I would ask you look at the words you used, where they came from, who said them to you, and why you brought them up here. They are strangely charged words for a debate over a picture.