4 ms·

The web has grown so hostile lately that javascript is honestly not safe or useful anymore. the only thing it's used for is serving ads and trackers and paywall

The web has grown so hostile lately that javascript is honestly not safe or useful anymore. the only thing it's used for is serving ads and trackers and paywalls, if i can't read a website with no script enabled it's not meant for me and im just not reading it.

bruce511 6mo ago
I concur that most web sites could use less JavaScript. And a lot of (but not all) cosmetic uses for JavaScript can be done in CSS. Of course for web apps (as distinct from web sites) most of what we do would be impossible without JavaScript. Infinite scrolling, maps (moving and zooming), field validation on entry, asynchronous page updates, web sockets, all require JavaScript. Of course JavaScript is abused. But it's clearly safe and useful when used well.
- sebbadk 6mo ago
  Infinite scrolling is JavaScript abuse. Pagination is much better for letting people keep track of their progress and time.
  - bruce511 6mo ago
    Infinite scrolling is just a feature. It can be used for good or evil.
- LorenDB 6mo ago
  > web apps See, that's where we went wrong. IMO the web is for web sites. Co-opting the browser for full applications has led to the significant degradement of modern software. If we must have a "write once, run anywhere" approach for modern development, can we at least use WASM bytecode and build a dedicated runtime that doesn't use the browser for GUI output?
  - bruce511 6mo ago
    You are of course entitled to your opinion. And you're free to code apps for any platform or language you like. Clearly though the world is using the web platform for writing applications. And I for one like the fact I can book a car, buy a secondhand book, or leave a restaurant review from a generic place that just works on all my devices.
- thunderfork 6mo ago
  HTML does provide the ability to use some client-side form validation without JavaScript. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn_web_development/Extensions/Forms/Form_validation#different_types_of_client-side_validation https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn_web_developme... Not saying your broader point is incorrect, but useful to know.

bruce511 6mo ago

I concur that most web sites could use less JavaScript. And a lot of (but not all) cosmetic uses for JavaScript can be done in CSS. Of course for web apps (as distinct from web sites) most of what we do would be impossible without JavaScript. Infinite scrolling, maps (moving and zooming), field validation on entry, asynchronous page updates, web sockets, all require JavaScript. Of course JavaScript is abused. But it's clearly safe and useful when used well.

sebbadk 6mo ago
Infinite scrolling is JavaScript abuse. Pagination is much better for letting people keep track of their progress and time.
- bruce511 6mo ago
  Infinite scrolling is just a feature. It can be used for good or evil.
LorenDB 6mo ago
> web apps See, that's where we went wrong. IMO the web is for web sites. Co-opting the browser for full applications has led to the significant degradement of modern software. If we must have a "write once, run anywhere" approach for modern development, can we at least use WASM bytecode and build a dedicated runtime that doesn't use the browser for GUI output?
- bruce511 6mo ago
  You are of course entitled to your opinion. And you're free to code apps for any platform or language you like. Clearly though the world is using the web platform for writing applications. And I for one like the fact I can book a car, buy a secondhand book, or leave a restaurant review from a generic place that just works on all my devices.
thunderfork 6mo ago
HTML does provide the ability to use some client-side form validation without JavaScript. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn_web_development/Extensions/Forms/Form_validation#different_types_of_client-side_validation https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn_web_developme... Not saying your broader point is incorrect, but useful to know.