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Bad faith requires you to intend it badly, though, not just for it to be bad.
by LoganDark 7mo ago
Bad faith requires you to intend it badly, though, not just for it to be bad.
- Gigachad 7mo agoThe above statement is claiming it likely is intended as something bad though. A convenient coverup.
- LoganDark 7mo agoCovering something up is not bad faith. PR firms do it all the time (though plenty more do things in bad faith too). If what you're covering up is an explicitly user-hostile decision then maybe that's bad faith if what you're trying to do is trick people. But if you're just lying for brownie points then that's not always bad faith, just dumb.
- pseudalopex 7mo agoHiding something to manipulate public perception is bad faith.
- saghm 7mo agoI don't agree with your definition here. Good faith means trying to be correct but potentially not being by accident. Intentionally lying is bad faith and by definition trying to trick people; you know the truth is one thing, but you're saying something else to try to get them to believe it.
- LoganDark 7mo agoWhat I'm saying is that even lying is only bad faith depending on the intent of the lie. That doesn't mean others can't be upset regardless of the lie's intent, but I wouldn't say all lies are bad faith.
- pseudalopex 7mo ago> I wouldn't say all lies are bad faith. No one said this.
- saghm 7mo agoI'm saying this: I don't think a lie can be in good faith by definition. Trying to make someone believe something you know isn't the truth is fundamentally bad faith.
- pseudalopex 7mo agoI thought you said Intentionally lying and bad faith is by definition trying to trick people. But you said Intentionally lying is bad faith and by definition trying to trick people. I thought your point was intent. Most people would not say to hide Jews from Nazis was bad faith I think.
- LoganDark 7mo ago> Most people would not say to hide Jews from Nazis was bad faith I think. That would be perfectly bad faith to the Nazis. There's no such factor as moral good or bad here; bad faith has more to do the intent you have towards each party. If the intent is to explicitly trick someone towards something you want or away from something you don't want, that is usually in bad faith. (There are some exceptions.) If the intent is just to explain something in a way others will understand, even if your explanation turns out to be (knowingly) inaccurate, that can sometimes be in good faith, though I wouldn't call it good practice.
- pseudalopex 7mo agoI said most people. Not you.
- swiftcoder 7mo ago> even lying is only bad faith depending on the intent of the lie And the intent here is to intentionally mislead, so how is that not bad faith?
- redsocksfan45 7mo ago[dead]
- croes 7mo ago> dishonest or unacceptable behaviour: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/bad-faith https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/bad-fait... > I just think the security argument is a convenient frame for decisions that are actually about something else. That would mean they think it’s bad faith. Claiming to do something because of A but to really do it because of B is dishonest
- chrismorgan 7mo agoFraming a business decision as a security imperative sure sounds like intent to mislead to me.
- LoganDark 7mo agoMisdirection is normal business practice. For example, Quadpay/Zipco recently made a change where instead of appraising your credit independently for each of their plans, they calculate a total amount you're allowed to have in flight at any given time, and share that across everything. In their FAQ, there is an entry for "Is my purchasing power going down?" and the answer is some bullshit like "Your purchasing power is unified for a simpler and more streamlined experience bla bla" which doesn't actually answer the question. It's meant to defuse questioners without actually revealing that yes, total purchasing power did go down when they decreased the number of buckets that multiplied their appraisal. You're no longer allowed to pay a larger sum of money over a longer period of time - you get one amount that you're allowed over any term, and that amount of lower than what you could've been approved for before. Regardless of whether that's a good or bad decision (good for people with bad impulse control, for example), they are dishonest about it through lawyerspeak, which is the most standard business practice there is. You could argue that plenty of standard business practices are bad faith but I would say the capitalist idea of private corporations in the first place is bad faith.
- thedevilslawyer 7mo agoMisdirection is misleading, and bad faith.
- spockz 7mo agoHow far have we fallen to call misdirection a normal business practice. I agree that it is everywhere but it isn’t or at least shouldn’t be normal.
- Chaosvex 7mo agoPertinent comment from earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47801845 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47801845