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Competition is bad? Who cares - let the big players subsidize and compete between each other. That's what we want. We want strong models at a low price, and we'
by someotherperson 6mo ago
Competition is bad? Who cares - let the big players subsidize and compete between each other. That's what we want. We want strong models at a low price, and we'll hype up whoever is doing it.
Simultaneously, we also hype up the open models that are catching up. That are significantly more discounted, that also put pressure on the big players and keep them in check.
People aren't falling for PR; people are encouraging the PR to put pressure on the competition. It's not that hard.
- whymememe 6mo agoI agree but I’d like to add that people are definitely falling for PR, people are always falling for PR or no one would bother with PR
- frank_nitti 6mo agoInteresting to see your observation where I have observed the opposite: posts that share big news about open-weight local models have many upvoted comments arguing local models shouldn’t be taken seriously and promoting the SOTA commercial models as the only viable options for serious developers. Here and on AI tech subreddits (ones that aren’t specifically about local or FOSS) seem to have this dynamic, to the degree I’ve suspected astroturfing. So it’s refreshing to see maybe that’s just a coincidence or confirmation bias on my end.
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- bloppe 6mo agoI'm just waiting till I can afford a GPU again
- lxgr 6mo agoBoth can be true at the same time. I currently wouldn't waste my time with open models for almost all use cases, but they're crucial from a data privacy and competitive perspective, and I can't wait for them to catch up enough to be as useful as the current frontier models.
- organsnyder 6mo agoI've found qwen3 to be very usable on my local machine (a Framework Desktop with 128gb RAM). I doubt it could handle the complex tasks I throw at Claude Opus at work, but it's more than capable of doing a surprising number of tasks, with good performance.
- dotancohen 6mo agoWhat tasks do you use qwen3 for? Coding? Are you running it on CPU or GPU? What GPU does that Framework have? Thanks!
- organsnyder 6mo agoThe Framework Desktop has a Ryzen 395 chip that is able to allocate memory to either the CPU or GPU. I've been able to allocate 100+gb to the GPU, so even big models can run there. Most recently I used it to develop a script to help me manage email. The implementation included interacting with my provider over JMAP, taking various actions, and implementing an automated unsubscribe flow. It was greenfield, and quite trivial compared to the codebases I normally interact with, but it was definitely useful.
- dotancohen 6mo agoThat's great. Ostensibly my system could also allocate some of the 32 GB of system memory to argument the 12 GB VRAM, but I've not been able to get it to load models over 20B. I should spend some more time on it.
- girvo 6mo agoI have an Asus GX10 that I run Qwen3.5 122B A10B on, and I use it for coding through the Pi coding agent (and my own); I have to put more work in to ensure that the model verifies what it does, but if you do so its quite capable. It makes using my Claude Pro sub actually feasible: write a plan with it, pick it up with my local model and implement it, now I'm not running out of tokens haha. Is it worth it from a unit economics POV? Probably not, but I bought this thing to learn how to deploy and serve models with vLLM and SGLang, and to learn how to fine tune and train models with the 128GB of memory it gets to work with. Adding up two 40GB vectors in CUDA was quite fun :) I also use Z.ai's Lite plan for the moment for GLM-5.1 which is very capable in my experience. I was using Alibaba's Lite Coding Plan... but they killed it entirely after two months haha, too cheap obviously. Or all the *claw users killed it.
- nl 6mo agoI've invested significant time into getting open models to work, and investigating what works well. The TL;DR is that unless you are doing it as a hobby or working in an environment where none of the data privacy options supported by Anthropic/OpenAI (including running on Azure/Bedrock with ZDR) work for you then it's not worth it. The best open models are around the Sonnet 4.6 level. That's excellent, but the level of tasks you can give to GPT 5.4 or Opus 4.6 is just so much higher it doesn't compare (and Opus 4.7 seems noticeably better in my few hours of testing too). I have my own benchmarks, but I like this much under-publicized OpenHands page: https://index.openhands.dev/home https://index.openhands.dev/home It shows for every task they test closed models do the best. The closest and open model gets is Minmax 2.7 on issue resolution where it's ~1% worse than the leaders. That matches my experience - fine for small problems, but well behind has the task gets bigger.
- echelon 6mo ago> Interesting to see your observation where I have observed the opposite: posts that share big news about open-weight local models have many upvoted comments arguing local models shouldn’t be taken seriously and promoting the SOTA commercial models as the only viable options for serious developers. When I argue this, my point is that FOSS shouldn't target the desktop with open weights - it should target H200s. Really big parameter models with big VRAM requirements. Those can always be distilled down, but you can't really go the other way.
- adamsmark 6mo agoLocal isn't viable yet on an economic basis, API costs are so low that you're better off taking advantage of the bonanza. As local models become more performant, so too will the ability of providers via Openrouter be able to offer them cheaper than your likely payoff period for a $4K Mac Studio 128GB. e.g Gemma 4 31B is impressive, but it costs practically nothing via Openrouter. Given that there are a ton of providers for open models, I doubt there's any subsidy going on because the providers are faceless and interchangeable. At least, that's my theory. The big advantages of local on a business level are: - Freezing your model's exact settings once you've locked in some kind of workflow that works just fine. - Guarding against insane token usage from LLMs who have been told to never stop until they figure out the solution OR setting up an LLM run incorrectly. (The last one happened to me with Gemini 3.1 Pro) - PII or some need for on-premise only LLMs.
- watwut 6mo agoBig players subsidizing is what kills medium and small players which then kills competition. What follows is monopoly. Big players operating at loss to distort the market is not a good thing overall.
- someotherperson 6mo agoThe medium and small players are literally just distilling the larger models. It's not the smaller players spending billions on training data.
- sofixa 6mo agoNo, the medium and small players are the Mistals, DeepSeek and H Company of the world, with their own models using quirky optimisation techniques to be able to compete.
- daveguy 6mo ago> Competition is bad? Who cares - let the big players subsidize and compete between each other. Subsidizing is the opposite of competing. It's literally the practice of underpricing your product to box out competition. If everyone was competing on a level playing field they would all price their products above cost. All these tech oligarch asshat companies need to be regulated to hell and back.
- ipaddr 6mo agoThe moat was already too large for smaller players. Let them subsidize. Take from investors and give to us buying me time to beef up my local stack to run local models. For many things now you need to go local and in the future if you want any privacy you'll need to go local.
- daveguy 6mo agoExcellent point, but I still think the oligarchs have gotten a little monopoly-happy.
- agentifysh 6mo agoWhat's the alternative, move to North Korea ?
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- daveguy 6mo agoWell, that's a great big wtf out of left field.
- agentifysh 6mo agoYou didn't seem to like competition or market forces pricing things. Just a suggestion.
- dmix 6mo agoThis assumes people are in touch with reality and aren't just motivated by vibes and insta-reactions on social media
- badrequest 6mo agoIt's hilarious how much this post reads as drafted by an LLM. The emdash, "it's not X, it's Y" framing, incredible.
- sph 6mo agoDogfooding by the slop factory. The artificial centipede.
- someotherperson 6mo agoI wrote my post myself.
- subscribed 6mo agoPeople use em-dashes all the time. This is why LLMs use it too. Also guess how LLMs learnt to use "it's not X, it's Y".