4 ms·

For decades we moved to a knowledge based economy, now we have perversely wealthy people saying they're coming for those jobs. The thought of 10s of millions o

For decades we moved to a knowledge based economy, now we have perversely wealthy people saying they're coming for those jobs. The thought of 10s of millions of people with nothing to do but starve to death ought to scare those wealthy people.

topheroo 6mo ago
Comment of the week
hn_acc1 6mo ago
Especially since many of them are some of the brightest minds around.
- Barbing 6mo ago
  If (1) many bright and very online people are going to lose their jobs, and (2) the response has not been mass unionization, might I rethink [1] a more likely future of work or rethink [2] the psychology of the average/collective knowledge workforce, or... "where union" in short. Perhaps the concept is too foreign for white collars, or on average folks think they'll be OK and it's the juniors who'll go... maybe too focused on immediate needs... a belief unionization is the wrong response... (and I'm not advocating for anything in particular btw)
  - Jensson 6mo ago
    Unions doesn't give you power they just help you use what power you have. Unions don't help if you don't have any power, see Detroit factory workers, they were highly unionized but that didn't help them at all. And if you have power then you can start a union, so there isn't a reason to start a union early before you need it.
  - ben_w 6mo ago
    To extend on what Jensson wrote: A union has the power to organise one thing, to withdraw labour. In the industrial era, the threat of all the workers not showing up was a threat to end a business. If AI does what is promised, to replace labour, then a threat to withdraw labour is only threatening the owners with a good time.
    - adrianN 6mo ago
      Yeah, the swing riots ultimately did not lead to better working conditions
      - ben_w 6mo ago
        Riots are very different to trade unions in the same way that a civil war is different from an electoral democracy.
        adrianN 6mo ago
        Well, if riots don’t help, I don’t think peaceful strikes work better.
        ben_w 6mo ago
        Yes? I'm saying unions, whose power is strikes, cannot possibly work because the strikers have zero power in the circumstance "we have decided to make you all redundant".
        adrianN 6mo ago
        And I’m providing further evidence for your claim.
- i_think_so 6mo ago
  ...and in America there are more guns than humans, and more potentially unemployed white collar workers than the police, military, and national guard combined. Nick Hanauer understood this fourteen years ago. Very few others did. And despite him spending his own time and money to explain it in simple English, nobody in his peer group wanted to hear it -- his TED talk on the subject ... took several years before it was published. Just a coincidence, I'm sure. FA (for a decade or so) FO, I guess? https://www.ted.com/talks/nick_hanauer_beware_fellow_plutocrats_the_pitchforks_are_coming https://www.ted.com/talks/nick_hanauer_beware_fellow_plutocr... https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/the-pitchforks-are-coming-for-us-plutocrats-108014 https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/the-pitchfor... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2gO4DKVpa8ns https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2gO4DKVpa8ns than humans, and more potentially unemployed white collar workers than the police, military and national guard combined.
  - Barbing 6mo ago
    whoh dude's awesome
pydry 6mo ago
They're experts at divide and conquer. They'll probably be able to convince us that we did this to each other. Just like they convinced the younger generation that "boomers" stole their future.
suburban_strike 6mo ago
> The thought of 10s of millions of people with nothing to do but starve to death ought to scare those wealthy people. It doesn't, it won't, and it shouldn't. It's not explored in game theory and criminal justice tries to conceal this but the starving will kill and eat each other long before they organize and mob the wealthy. It plays out in every prison riot, governmental collapse, and other condition of anarchy. This idea that the poor will mob the rich is feel-good Hollywood idealism that has been wholly undermined by identity politics. The poor will sooner kill and eat you just because you're easier to reach.

topheroo 6mo ago

Comment of the week

hn_acc1 6mo ago

Especially since many of them are some of the brightest minds around.

Barbing 6mo ago
If (1) many bright and very online people are going to lose their jobs, and (2) the response has not been mass unionization, might I rethink [1] a more likely future of work or rethink [2] the psychology of the average/collective knowledge workforce, or... "where union" in short. Perhaps the concept is too foreign for white collars, or on average folks think they'll be OK and it's the juniors who'll go... maybe too focused on immediate needs... a belief unionization is the wrong response... (and I'm not advocating for anything in particular btw)
- Jensson 6mo ago
  Unions doesn't give you power they just help you use what power you have. Unions don't help if you don't have any power, see Detroit factory workers, they were highly unionized but that didn't help them at all. And if you have power then you can start a union, so there isn't a reason to start a union early before you need it.
- ben_w 6mo ago
  To extend on what Jensson wrote: A union has the power to organise one thing, to withdraw labour. In the industrial era, the threat of all the workers not showing up was a threat to end a business. If AI does what is promised, to replace labour, then a threat to withdraw labour is only threatening the owners with a good time.
  - adrianN 6mo ago
    Yeah, the swing riots ultimately did not lead to better working conditions
    - ben_w 6mo ago
      Riots are very different to trade unions in the same way that a civil war is different from an electoral democracy.
      - adrianN 6mo ago
        Well, if riots don’t help, I don’t think peaceful strikes work better.
        ben_w 6mo ago
        Yes? I'm saying unions, whose power is strikes, cannot possibly work because the strikers have zero power in the circumstance "we have decided to make you all redundant".
        adrianN 6mo ago
        And I’m providing further evidence for your claim.
i_think_so 6mo ago
...and in America there are more guns than humans, and more potentially unemployed white collar workers than the police, military, and national guard combined. Nick Hanauer understood this fourteen years ago. Very few others did. And despite him spending his own time and money to explain it in simple English, nobody in his peer group wanted to hear it -- his TED talk on the subject ... took several years before it was published. Just a coincidence, I'm sure. FA (for a decade or so) FO, I guess? https://www.ted.com/talks/nick_hanauer_beware_fellow_plutocrats_the_pitchforks_are_coming https://www.ted.com/talks/nick_hanauer_beware_fellow_plutocr... https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/the-pitchforks-are-coming-for-us-plutocrats-108014 https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/the-pitchfor... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2gO4DKVpa8ns https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2gO4DKVpa8ns than humans, and more potentially unemployed white collar workers than the police, military and national guard combined.
- Barbing 6mo ago
  whoh dude's awesome

pydry 6mo ago

They're experts at divide and conquer. They'll probably be able to convince us that we did this to each other. Just like they convinced the younger generation that "boomers" stole their future.

suburban_strike 6mo ago

> The thought of 10s of millions of people with nothing to do but starve to death ought to scare those wealthy people. It doesn't, it won't, and it shouldn't. It's not explored in game theory and criminal justice tries to conceal this but the starving will kill and eat each other long before they organize and mob the wealthy. It plays out in every prison riot, governmental collapse, and other condition of anarchy. This idea that the poor will mob the rich is feel-good Hollywood idealism that has been wholly undermined by identity politics. The poor will sooner kill and eat you just because you're easier to reach.