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I think it’s easier just to recognize words as free and to value them as such. Actions have value.

bryanrasmussen 7mo ago
>I think it’s easier just to recognize words as free and to value them as such. well, yeah that is the world the AI guys want...
- Apocryphon 7mo ago
  The opposite, actually. They hardly want to give away tokens for free!
  - hn_acc1 7mo ago
    They want the grand total of humanity's knowledge, from which they create tokens, to be given to them for free, though..
  - dugidugout 7mo ago
    For the tech bros, the tokens are the actions and the prompts are the words.
mountainb 7mo ago
Many actions have a negative value. If I give two toddlers ball-peen hammers, release them into a window store, and then close the front door while I wait in the parking lot, was my action likely to create value or likely to destroy value?
- jagged-chisel 7mo ago
  For whom? The employees will get more paid hours as they clean up. You have created value for them!
  - evan_ 7mo ago
    ok Zorg https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119116/quotes/?item=qt0544361&ref_=ext_shr_lnk https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119116/quotes/?item=qt0544361&...
    - jagged-chisel 7mo ago
      “…by creating a little destruction, I am in fact creating [value.]” Indeed, the capitalist’s creed!
- edm0nd 7mo ago
  is it not both? create value because the windows have to be replaced and employees are paid for their labor in doing that. destroy value bc they -1 inventory each time a window is broken
  - lbreakjai 7mo ago
    It's a net value loss. This is literally the parable of the broken window https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window The fallacy is to think value was created by buying someone's labour to fix the window. This is value that's been displaced from something productive to something unproductive. Instead of going from 0 to 1 (invest the money and create value), you went from -1 to 0 (spend money to fix the window to get back to where you were) and, overall, the value of a perfectly good window got lost.
    - i_think_so 7mo ago
      I've never understood why this isn't obvious to anyone with a room temperature IQ and 30 spare seconds to think about it. In other words, everybody but economists and certain philosophers. :-)
Barbing 7mo ago
FIRE! -crowded theater (negative value example) Words can be pretty much actions depending on who you are https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_no_one_rid_me_of_this_turbulent_priest%3F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_no_one_rid_me_of_this_tur...
gobdovan 7mo ago
Words are acts, as formalized in speech act theory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_act

>I think it’s easier just to recognize words as free and to value them as such. well, yeah that is the world the AI guys want...

Apocryphon 7mo ago
The opposite, actually. They hardly want to give away tokens for free!
- hn_acc1 7mo ago
  They want the grand total of humanity's knowledge, from which they create tokens, to be given to them for free, though..
- dugidugout 7mo ago
  For the tech bros, the tokens are the actions and the prompts are the words.

mountainb 7mo ago

Many actions have a negative value. If I give two toddlers ball-peen hammers, release them into a window store, and then close the front door while I wait in the parking lot, was my action likely to create value or likely to destroy value?

jagged-chisel 7mo ago
For whom? The employees will get more paid hours as they clean up. You have created value for them!
- evan_ 7mo ago
  ok Zorg https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119116/quotes/?item=qt0544361&ref_=ext_shr_lnk https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119116/quotes/?item=qt0544361&...
  - jagged-chisel 7mo ago
    “…by creating a little destruction, I am in fact creating [value.]” Indeed, the capitalist’s creed!
edm0nd 7mo ago
is it not both? create value because the windows have to be replaced and employees are paid for their labor in doing that. destroy value bc they -1 inventory each time a window is broken
- lbreakjai 7mo ago
  It's a net value loss. This is literally the parable of the broken window https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window The fallacy is to think value was created by buying someone's labour to fix the window. This is value that's been displaced from something productive to something unproductive. Instead of going from 0 to 1 (invest the money and create value), you went from -1 to 0 (spend money to fix the window to get back to where you were) and, overall, the value of a perfectly good window got lost.
  - i_think_so 7mo ago
    I've never understood why this isn't obvious to anyone with a room temperature IQ and 30 spare seconds to think about it. In other words, everybody but economists and certain philosophers. :-)

Barbing 7mo ago

FIRE! -crowded theater (negative value example) Words can be pretty much actions depending on who you are https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_no_one_rid_me_of_this_turbulent_priest%3F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_no_one_rid_me_of_this_tur...

gobdovan 7mo ago

Words are acts, as formalized in speech act theory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_act