4 ms·

I haven't got an MBA but many close friends do - and none of them fit Matt's views. I repeat, none. Having an MBA is not a black and white scenario, and that sa

by antr 14y ago

I haven't got an MBA but many close friends do - and none of them fit Matt's views. I repeat, none. Having an MBA is not a black and white scenario, and that same "profile" can apply to anyone with no MBA. Still, let the facts do the talking, founders/executers with MBAs: - Chris Dixon (Hunch, among others) - Jeff Skoll (eBay) - Trip Hawkins (Electronic Arts) - Vinod Khosla, Scott McNealy(Sun Microsystems) - Gery Kremen (Match.com) - Alexandra Wilson and Alexis Maybank (Gilt Groupe) - Jeff Fluhr (Stubhub) - Miriam Naficy (Minted, Eve.com) - Victoria Ransom and Alain Chuard (Wildfire) - Mike Cassidy (Stylus Innovation, Direct Hit, Xfire, and Ruba) - Inaki Berenguer (Pixable) - Neil Blumenthal, Andrew Hunt, Jeffrey Raider, David Gilboa (Warby Parker) - Cyrus Massoumi (ZocDoc) - Jessica Flannery (Kiva.org) The list can go on...

MattRob 14y ago
I totally agree. As I said in the original post: "I am not trying to argue that there is no place for MBAs, or that no MBA has a clue about startups – both of those are demonstrably untrue. Also having an MBA itself is clearly not the problem."
- antr 14y ago
  The title should be "Why we have never hired someone who wants to be a Product Manager". The MBA angle/title is total link-bait and a cheap way of stereotyping anyone. These type of posts, in the past year, have turned HN into the perfect example of double standards.
  - wpietri 14y ago
    No, I think it's a real issue. The typical routes out of MBA programs are managerial or consulting roles. That's great; the degree was designed to give future managers a broad, intellectual understanding of business as practiced by large American corporations. Startups don't have those roles. At all. If you've hired right, everybody has smart opinions and nobody needs much management. What you need is people who can get things done right now. People with experience in designing interfaces, in interviewing users, in banging out prototypes, in running ad campaigns. MBA programs teach a lot of great stuff. But none of my friend with MBAs got significant hands-on practical experience there.
    - antr 14y ago
      "The typical routes out of MBA programs are managerial or consulting roles." How does this sound: "The typical route for a CS grad is a job as a software engineer at SAP". Get it? As a startup founder let me just say that NO degree prepares you for a startup. I guess you are right on one thing, the common denominator: "People with experience" - with my caveat of: regardless of your background. Your comment comes across like a double standard - which I do mention out above.
      - wpietri 14y ago
        I don't get your point. Is there a problem with fresh CS grads expecting to end up in strategic roles at startups? If not, then I'm not seeing why the analogy is relevant. From what I've seen, fresh developer grads expect to take entry-level positions. Fresh MBA grads generally don't; they expect to be listened to as high-level advisors or managers. That is not an unreasonable expectation, in that their programs train them for that. Another way to look at it: It's well-known that large-company execs often adapt poorly to working at startups, partly because they are used to having other people around to do the actual work. An MBA trains people for that sort of large-company position, so it's unsurprising that people fresh out of MBA programs would have the same issues.
        antr 14y ago
        Lets agree to disagree. Clearly your experience and views differ from mine. I'll give up and believe that all MBAs love the red carpet, join startups simply to "strategize" in their $900 chairs, and sing the Kumbaya while developers do the grunt work. This back and forth is a total waste of everyone's time.
        wpietri 14y ago
        A sarcastic, straw-man flounce is definitely a waste of time. The "agree to disagree thing" only works if you do it graciously.
        14y ago
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
wpietri 14y ago
You talk as if you're proving the article wrong, but from what I recall of the people on the list, it's just the opposite. Chris Dixon, for example, worked for years as a developer and more years at a VC before he founded anything. Jeff Skoll joined eBay after it was already profitable. And he had started two businesses before getting his MBA. Trip Hawkins joined Apple specifically to work with successful entrepreneurs to learn how they did it, and he joined them at 50 people, not 15. None of these people would have made the mistake that the MBAs who approach Matt did, which was assuming that the mere having of an MBA qualified them to take a major role at a startup.

by antr 14y ago

MattRob 14y ago

I totally agree. As I said in the original post: "I am not trying to argue that there is no place for MBAs, or that no MBA has a clue about startups – both of those are demonstrably untrue. Also having an MBA itself is clearly not the problem."

antr 14y ago
The title should be "Why we have never hired someone who wants to be a Product Manager". The MBA angle/title is total link-bait and a cheap way of stereotyping anyone. These type of posts, in the past year, have turned HN into the perfect example of double standards.
- wpietri 14y ago
  No, I think it's a real issue. The typical routes out of MBA programs are managerial or consulting roles. That's great; the degree was designed to give future managers a broad, intellectual understanding of business as practiced by large American corporations. Startups don't have those roles. At all. If you've hired right, everybody has smart opinions and nobody needs much management. What you need is people who can get things done right now. People with experience in designing interfaces, in interviewing users, in banging out prototypes, in running ad campaigns. MBA programs teach a lot of great stuff. But none of my friend with MBAs got significant hands-on practical experience there.
  - antr 14y ago
    "The typical routes out of MBA programs are managerial or consulting roles." How does this sound: "The typical route for a CS grad is a job as a software engineer at SAP". Get it? As a startup founder let me just say that NO degree prepares you for a startup. I guess you are right on one thing, the common denominator: "People with experience" - with my caveat of: regardless of your background. Your comment comes across like a double standard - which I do mention out above.
    - wpietri 14y ago
      I don't get your point. Is there a problem with fresh CS grads expecting to end up in strategic roles at startups? If not, then I'm not seeing why the analogy is relevant. From what I've seen, fresh developer grads expect to take entry-level positions. Fresh MBA grads generally don't; they expect to be listened to as high-level advisors or managers. That is not an unreasonable expectation, in that their programs train them for that. Another way to look at it: It's well-known that large-company execs often adapt poorly to working at startups, partly because they are used to having other people around to do the actual work. An MBA trains people for that sort of large-company position, so it's unsurprising that people fresh out of MBA programs would have the same issues.
      - antr 14y ago
        Lets agree to disagree. Clearly your experience and views differ from mine. I'll give up and believe that all MBAs love the red carpet, join startups simply to "strategize" in their $900 chairs, and sing the Kumbaya while developers do the grunt work. This back and forth is a total waste of everyone's time.
        wpietri 14y ago
        A sarcastic, straw-man flounce is definitely a waste of time. The "agree to disagree thing" only works if you do it graciously.
        14y ago
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

wpietri 14y ago

You talk as if you're proving the article wrong, but from what I recall of the people on the list, it's just the opposite. Chris Dixon, for example, worked for years as a developer and more years at a VC before he founded anything. Jeff Skoll joined eBay after it was already profitable. And he had started two businesses before getting his MBA. Trip Hawkins joined Apple specifically to work with successful entrepreneurs to learn how they did it, and he joined them at 50 people, not 15. None of these people would have made the mistake that the MBAs who approach Matt did, which was assuming that the mere having of an MBA qualified them to take a major role at a startup.