4 ms·

Does the government need a reason to revoke a persons visa? First amendment or not, that is the real question. If no reason is needed then whether the first ame

Does the government need a reason to revoke a persons visa? First amendment or not, that is the real question. If no reason is needed then whether the first amendment applies or not is moot. There seems to be broad discretion that the government has in revoking visas.

impossiblefork 6mo ago
Think like this: in the US you can fire someone for almost any reason, except if it's one of certain forbidden reasons. Similarly, the US government can revoke someone's visa, but they can't revoke someone's visa because of speech protected by the first amendment.
- Gareth321 6mo ago
  This makes sense but then the outcome of this is all theatrical. What will happen in future is that people have their visas revoked without any comments or reason given. There is no legal requirement to list a reason. It will end up the same as employment law, where people can discriminate and break the law as long as they don't tell the applicant they are doing so.
  - impossiblefork 6mo ago
    Yes, of course this won't have any practical effect, unless people are writing everything down, which I, however, think they often are.
cycomanic 6mo ago
No the government can't just revoke a visa because Trump doesn't like your face, the reasons must be based in law and there is the pesky thing called due process that needs to be followed. I am honestly flabbergasted that people think the government can just do willy billy.
- MichaelRo 6mo ago
  [flagged]
  - 331c8c71 6mo ago
    It's suddenly you who's deciding for others what's stupid?
  - herewulf 6mo ago
    While this may be good practical advice, it's the principle that matters. The Administration is testing how far it can go and today it's non-citizens, tomorrow it's citizens. In fact citizens' rights have already been violated, for example, with numerous reports of Native Americans getting picked up by ICE. DHS goons drunk on power don't care about racial profiling. They have quotas to fill! So, next you'll say: "Should have known better than to look Mexican in front of that Home Depot.." "Should have known better to look Mexican out on the street.." Do you see where this leads?
  - Glemllksdf 6mo ago
    I have the feeling that this is simplifying something. I do agree that if someone would come to my country on a visa for studing, I don't think its okay for them to protest stuff. It feels disrespectful even if i'm aligned with that persons politics. On the other hand, i expect us all to have a acertain amount of personal freedom on our planet and protesting itself is part of this, same as free speech. In this context of the USA: USA is a country grifted by us europeans. It has land, resources etc. Just because USA now fully formed, somehow I do have the feeling that I should be allowed to also become a USA citizien (not for the social system, USA is fucked) but for the reason of also benefiting from that land (great nature, lots of space, etc.).
    - tehjoker 6mo ago
      gifted by europeans? i think you may be overlooking the native americans. this is a settler colonial country

impossiblefork 6mo ago

Think like this: in the US you can fire someone for almost any reason, except if it's one of certain forbidden reasons. Similarly, the US government can revoke someone's visa, but they can't revoke someone's visa because of speech protected by the first amendment.

Gareth321 6mo ago
This makes sense but then the outcome of this is all theatrical. What will happen in future is that people have their visas revoked without any comments or reason given. There is no legal requirement to list a reason. It will end up the same as employment law, where people can discriminate and break the law as long as they don't tell the applicant they are doing so.
- impossiblefork 6mo ago
  Yes, of course this won't have any practical effect, unless people are writing everything down, which I, however, think they often are.

cycomanic 6mo ago

No the government can't just revoke a visa because Trump doesn't like your face, the reasons must be based in law and there is the pesky thing called due process that needs to be followed. I am honestly flabbergasted that people think the government can just do willy billy.

MichaelRo 6mo ago
[flagged]
- 331c8c71 6mo ago
  It's suddenly you who's deciding for others what's stupid?
- herewulf 6mo ago
  While this may be good practical advice, it's the principle that matters. The Administration is testing how far it can go and today it's non-citizens, tomorrow it's citizens. In fact citizens' rights have already been violated, for example, with numerous reports of Native Americans getting picked up by ICE. DHS goons drunk on power don't care about racial profiling. They have quotas to fill! So, next you'll say: "Should have known better than to look Mexican in front of that Home Depot.." "Should have known better to look Mexican out on the street.." Do you see where this leads?
- Glemllksdf 6mo ago
  I have the feeling that this is simplifying something. I do agree that if someone would come to my country on a visa for studing, I don't think its okay for them to protest stuff. It feels disrespectful even if i'm aligned with that persons politics. On the other hand, i expect us all to have a acertain amount of personal freedom on our planet and protesting itself is part of this, same as free speech. In this context of the USA: USA is a country grifted by us europeans. It has land, resources etc. Just because USA now fully formed, somehow I do have the feeling that I should be allowed to also become a USA citizien (not for the social system, USA is fucked) but for the reason of also benefiting from that land (great nature, lots of space, etc.).
  - tehjoker 6mo ago
    gifted by europeans? i think you may be overlooking the native americans. this is a settler colonial country