4 ms·

USA was founded well after the Pilgrims. I don't think anyone in 1776, or even in the Pilgrim days, was thinking a foreigner should have the right to vote for i

USA was founded well after the Pilgrims. I don't think anyone in 1776, or even in the Pilgrim days, was thinking a foreigner should have the right to vote for instance.

Planktonne 6mo ago
Who else didn't they think should have the right to vote in 1776, and was that the right call in your opinion? As I said above, a law you have to tie yourself in knots to justify might be a bad law.
- traderj0e 6mo ago
  What are you saying, the US Constitution is bogus because people were racist in 1776? It's undergone amendments and clarifications by the Judicial branch. It's been consistently obvious that foreigners don't have the same rights as citizens here, and tourism or immigration law wouldn't really work otherwise.
  - Planktonne 6mo ago
    You didn't answer my question, but here's what I'm saying: > If you have to work your way round to "they are not people" for the law to be consistent, consider that it might be a bad law. I disagree that the law (which has been changed, amended and clarified) has been 'consistently obvious', and I still maintain that the conclusion of 'immigrants aren't people' invalidates the law.
    - traderj0e 6mo ago
      The courts didn't come to the conclusion that immigrants aren't people. Probably the opposite in fact.
kelnos 6mo ago
After the Revolutionary War, most US citizens couldn't vote. I don't think we should be using that time period for comparison.
- mothballed 6mo ago
  Most people in the US did not choose to become citizens until the mid 19th century. The process was much easier than naturalization today, though, presuming you were white and in some cases might be required to own property. US also didn't have Jus soli citizenship until the whole civil war and slavery debacle. You had to go into a local court and show you lived in the US for a couple years, who would swear you in as a citizen. But most people didn't care about voting or holding office enough to bother.
  - jcranmer 6mo ago
    > US also didn't have Jus soli citizenship until the whole civil war and slavery debacle. Actually, my understanding is that the US did largely follow jus soli. What it wasn't was unconditional jus soli, but the principle was birth in the bounds of the US conferred citizenship except if positive law existed not conferring citizenship.
GetTheFacts 6mo ago
>I don't think anyone in 1776, or even in the Pilgrim days, was thinking a foreigner should have the right to vote for instance. Nor does anyone in 2026. Your point?

USA was founded well after the Pilgrims. I don't think anyone in 1776, or even in the Pilgrim days, was thinking a foreigner should have the right to vote for instance.

Planktonne 6mo ago

Who else didn't they think should have the right to vote in 1776, and was that the right call in your opinion? As I said above, a law you have to tie yourself in knots to justify might be a bad law.

traderj0e 6mo ago
What are you saying, the US Constitution is bogus because people were racist in 1776? It's undergone amendments and clarifications by the Judicial branch. It's been consistently obvious that foreigners don't have the same rights as citizens here, and tourism or immigration law wouldn't really work otherwise.
- Planktonne 6mo ago
  You didn't answer my question, but here's what I'm saying: > If you have to work your way round to "they are not people" for the law to be consistent, consider that it might be a bad law. I disagree that the law (which has been changed, amended and clarified) has been 'consistently obvious', and I still maintain that the conclusion of 'immigrants aren't people' invalidates the law.
  - traderj0e 6mo ago
    The courts didn't come to the conclusion that immigrants aren't people. Probably the opposite in fact.

kelnos 6mo ago

After the Revolutionary War, most US citizens couldn't vote. I don't think we should be using that time period for comparison.

mothballed 6mo ago
Most people in the US did not choose to become citizens until the mid 19th century. The process was much easier than naturalization today, though, presuming you were white and in some cases might be required to own property. US also didn't have Jus soli citizenship until the whole civil war and slavery debacle. You had to go into a local court and show you lived in the US for a couple years, who would swear you in as a citizen. But most people didn't care about voting or holding office enough to bother.
- jcranmer 6mo ago
  > US also didn't have Jus soli citizenship until the whole civil war and slavery debacle. Actually, my understanding is that the US did largely follow jus soli. What it wasn't was unconditional jus soli, but the principle was birth in the bounds of the US conferred citizenship except if positive law existed not conferring citizenship.

GetTheFacts 6mo ago

>I don't think anyone in 1776, or even in the Pilgrim days, was thinking a foreigner should have the right to vote for instance. Nor does anyone in 2026. Your point?