4 ms·

Why is there a flock camera indoors at a school in the first place? Are the schools supposed to be putting video and audio footage of children on 3rd party sto

by Bender 7mo ago

Why is there a flock camera indoors at a school in the first place? Are the schools supposed to be putting video and audio footage of children on 3rd party storage platforms? Are the parents aware of this? Perhaps PTA meetings should discuss. That seems like something that should be using close circuit PoE cameras to local NVR's with on-prem encrypted storage with a retention policy if there must be cameras. Encrypted CEPH perhaps? [3] Just as one example Zoneminder [1][2] can be clustered and distributed assuming a large campus. I'm sure there must be other open source NVR's that can do the same. School IT staff should try out a small deployment first and then extend it year over year. Local AI should detect and alert on fights, abuse from teachers, anyone with a weapon, someone injured, etc... Bob can be granted access to specific cameras that relate to his role to avoid Repetitive Strain Injury RSI among other issues. [1] - https://zoneminder.readthedocs.io/en/stable/ https://zoneminder.readthedocs.io/en/stable/ [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us20t1gQPOE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us20t1gQPOE [video][48 mins][tutorial using LXC on Debian and Proxmox] [3] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzLV9Agnou8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzLV9Agnou8 [video][24 mins][ceph tutorial on proxmox][cat included]

cyanydeez 7mo ago
Most likely, it's part of not dealing directly with access to guns, and associated Police state and chillun-to-prison pipeline. This seems to just be a regular progression, and offering some open source alternative to oppression is amusing.
kube-system 7mo ago
The main reason that organizations choose commercially managed solutions is because they don't have local expertise or staff to do things themselves. I do agree that on-prem solutions are better, but Zoneminder is probably not a great option. Besides being old and clunky, it also isn't anywhere near a complete solution, and the IP cameras people often choose to connect to them are often security nightmares. There are many good and complete commercial offerings that are secure and keep video locally.
- Bender 7mo ago
  I totally get what you are saying and there are certainly some schools that lack IT staff, budget and experience but there are some schools that have big budgets and plenty of IT people sitting on their hands that could slowly build this out, document it in a way that schools could budget around YoY and set examples for other schools. Maybe even use it as a project to get students some college credits. If there are better options than Zoneminder please do share the tutorial videos with others here so they have greater options. I am old and clunky so ZM works for me. Some may even say old and clunky can mean reliable and low maintenance. There are probably some school IT admins reading this. ZM has great documentation and tutorial videos in my opinion. It is also used by a large number of corporations. Just my own philosophy but I am leery of expensive turn-key commercial solutions as they lead to proprietary solutions that school IT won't understand and will just lead to dead cameras and empty NVR's when law enforcement need them the most. It will be one of the first maintenance contracts that get cut from budgets.
  - kube-system 7mo ago
    Just because someone has an IT staff doesn't necessarily mean that staff really has the expertise to set up a bespoke surveillance system properly. Nor does it really make it a good idea to do so. Nor is it even a good use of time when packaged systems can fulfill most requirements with less integration risk. The software running on an NVR is only one small part of a surveillance system. I'd be much more worried about the choice IP cameras themselves, which are notoriously problematic. And if you look at the cameras which are well regarded and high quality -- typically those vendors have their own NVR solutions which are also well regarded and already tested to work well with their cameras. > I am leery of expensive turn-key commercial solutions as they lead to proprietary solutions that school IT won't understand If IT can't adequately evaluate and choose a turn-key solution, I doubt their ability to piece together their own system. > If there are better options than Zoneminder please do share the tutorial videos with others here so they have greater options. I am old and clunky so ZM works for me. Some may even say old and clunky can mean reliable and low maintenance. The last time I tried Zoneminder, the problem I had was that the detection algorithms were so bad that I found them useless. The cameras I had were all outdoors and their algorithm struggled to strike a balance between detecting legitimate motion and not falsely triggering when lighting conditions changed. I tried some other projects that had better algorithms for filtering out changes in exposure and lighting (I forget which ones), but there's also some now that have AI object detection. But ultimately I've migrated away because commercial options got better, cheaper, and more feature filled. If I picked a new system today I'd probably try something like: https://www.ui.com/us/en/camera-security https://www.ui.com/us/en/camera-security I don't have any personal experience with it but the value looks incredible.
tclancy 7mo ago
> Are the parents aware of this? Perhaps PTA meetings should discuss. Not everyone grows up in such an idyllic environment where there is an active and engaged PTA or concerned parents who feel like they have a voice. Moreover the perceived need for security cameras is probably inversely proportional to places with active PTA groups (though maybe not). Either way, suggesting tech solutions is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
- Bender 7mo ago
  Either way, suggesting tech solutions is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. My gripe will be the music they are playing whilst I am moving the deck chairs on the Titanic. Enough ragtime already. I will take some Moonlight Bay please [1]. Oh and to your point of course there will be places that can't do this. They should be focusing on the proper disassembly cleaning lubricating and reassembly of their Hi-Point's. Such schools should have mandatory handgun safety courses like the old days. Or current times for the Swiss [2]. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud7ZTU4FS3U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud7ZTU4FS3U [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnBDK-QNZkM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnBDK-QNZkM
briandear 7mo ago
PTA isn’t the place. The school board is.
- Bender 7mo ago
  PTA isn’t the place. The school board is. Well I would still want all the parents to be in the loop even if many won't care. Also: - Yup let the board know. - Notify all biker clubs in North America that explicitly protect children. - Notify the local Sheriff. - Notify Chris Hansen to keep an eye on Bob.
- cestith 7mo ago
  The board might not even be the right place. They’re watching children in minimal dress athletics. I think the DA or the AG’s office might be the right place.
deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]
otiose 7mo ago
Arguing over on-prem vs cloud misses the entire point.The architecture doesn't matter when the core requirement itself is just insane surveillance.We should be angry that our engineering is being weaponized to fulfill such a sick requirement in the first place.

by Bender 7mo ago

cyanydeez 7mo ago

Most likely, it's part of not dealing directly with access to guns, and associated Police state and chillun-to-prison pipeline. This seems to just be a regular progression, and offering some open source alternative to oppression is amusing.

kube-system 7mo ago

The main reason that organizations choose commercially managed solutions is because they don't have local expertise or staff to do things themselves. I do agree that on-prem solutions are better, but Zoneminder is probably not a great option. Besides being old and clunky, it also isn't anywhere near a complete solution, and the IP cameras people often choose to connect to them are often security nightmares. There are many good and complete commercial offerings that are secure and keep video locally.

Bender 7mo ago
I totally get what you are saying and there are certainly some schools that lack IT staff, budget and experience but there are some schools that have big budgets and plenty of IT people sitting on their hands that could slowly build this out, document it in a way that schools could budget around YoY and set examples for other schools. Maybe even use it as a project to get students some college credits. If there are better options than Zoneminder please do share the tutorial videos with others here so they have greater options. I am old and clunky so ZM works for me. Some may even say old and clunky can mean reliable and low maintenance. There are probably some school IT admins reading this. ZM has great documentation and tutorial videos in my opinion. It is also used by a large number of corporations. Just my own philosophy but I am leery of expensive turn-key commercial solutions as they lead to proprietary solutions that school IT won't understand and will just lead to dead cameras and empty NVR's when law enforcement need them the most. It will be one of the first maintenance contracts that get cut from budgets.
- kube-system 7mo ago
  Just because someone has an IT staff doesn't necessarily mean that staff really has the expertise to set up a bespoke surveillance system properly. Nor does it really make it a good idea to do so. Nor is it even a good use of time when packaged systems can fulfill most requirements with less integration risk. The software running on an NVR is only one small part of a surveillance system. I'd be much more worried about the choice IP cameras themselves, which are notoriously problematic. And if you look at the cameras which are well regarded and high quality -- typically those vendors have their own NVR solutions which are also well regarded and already tested to work well with their cameras. > I am leery of expensive turn-key commercial solutions as they lead to proprietary solutions that school IT won't understand If IT can't adequately evaluate and choose a turn-key solution, I doubt their ability to piece together their own system. > If there are better options than Zoneminder please do share the tutorial videos with others here so they have greater options. I am old and clunky so ZM works for me. Some may even say old and clunky can mean reliable and low maintenance. The last time I tried Zoneminder, the problem I had was that the detection algorithms were so bad that I found them useless. The cameras I had were all outdoors and their algorithm struggled to strike a balance between detecting legitimate motion and not falsely triggering when lighting conditions changed. I tried some other projects that had better algorithms for filtering out changes in exposure and lighting (I forget which ones), but there's also some now that have AI object detection. But ultimately I've migrated away because commercial options got better, cheaper, and more feature filled. If I picked a new system today I'd probably try something like: https://www.ui.com/us/en/camera-security https://www.ui.com/us/en/camera-security I don't have any personal experience with it but the value looks incredible.

tclancy 7mo ago

> Are the parents aware of this? Perhaps PTA meetings should discuss. Not everyone grows up in such an idyllic environment where there is an active and engaged PTA or concerned parents who feel like they have a voice. Moreover the perceived need for security cameras is probably inversely proportional to places with active PTA groups (though maybe not). Either way, suggesting tech solutions is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

Bender 7mo ago
Either way, suggesting tech solutions is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. My gripe will be the music they are playing whilst I am moving the deck chairs on the Titanic. Enough ragtime already. I will take some Moonlight Bay please [1]. Oh and to your point of course there will be places that can't do this. They should be focusing on the proper disassembly cleaning lubricating and reassembly of their Hi-Point's. Such schools should have mandatory handgun safety courses like the old days. Or current times for the Swiss [2]. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud7ZTU4FS3U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud7ZTU4FS3U [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnBDK-QNZkM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnBDK-QNZkM

briandear 7mo ago

PTA isn’t the place. The school board is.

Bender 7mo ago
PTA isn’t the place. The school board is. Well I would still want all the parents to be in the loop even if many won't care. Also: - Yup let the board know. - Notify all biker clubs in North America that explicitly protect children. - Notify the local Sheriff. - Notify Chris Hansen to keep an eye on Bob.
cestith 7mo ago
The board might not even be the right place. They’re watching children in minimal dress athletics. I think the DA or the AG’s office might be the right place.

deleted 7mo ago

[deleted]

otiose 7mo ago

Arguing over on-prem vs cloud misses the entire point.The architecture doesn't matter when the core requirement itself is just insane surveillance.We should be angry that our engineering is being weaponized to fulfill such a sick requirement in the first place.