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I live in the Phoenix metro area, on the second floor. My balcony faces precisely 225° in azimuth. That is due southwest. A few years ago, I purchased a "solar

I live in the Phoenix metro area, on the second floor. My balcony faces precisely 225° in azimuth. That is due southwest. A few years ago, I purchased a "solar backpack" which incorporates a solar panel and a laptop-sized power bank. During the winter solstice, I tried charging the power bank with actual solar energy, and it took more than 3 weeks to fill it up! Our lease agreement has some concessions for potential satellite dishes and external TV antennas. So I asked my landlady if she would permit me to install solar panels out there. Her answer was a resounding "NO". It wasn't merely about the aesthetics, but also about the question of hooking them up. Our electricity is unmetered and included in our rent. My unit has an individual circuit breaker box, but how would solar power be fed into such a system? It would be chaos, and the management would have no way of regulating or maintaining such a bizarre setup. I think that's going to be a major logistics challenge for anyone who goes down this road.

fortran77 7mo ago
And also liability for things falling out of windows.
- elijaht 7mo ago
  Is that not also a concern for window AC units?
  - fortran77 7mo ago
    Yes. Which is why laws require brackets, etc. But landlords have to allow window air conditioners (installed properly, etc) because old people can die in the heat. They're less likely to want to accept liability for something not required by law. Air Conditioners also injure firefighters because they tend to fall during fires: https://nypost.com/2026/01/06/us-news/nyc-bravest-hit-in-head-by-falling-ac-during-raging-inferno/ https://nypost.com/2026/01/06/us-news/nyc-bravest-hit-in-hea...
timdiggerm 7mo ago
> Our electricity is unmetered and included in our rent. My unit has an individual circuit breaker box, but how would solar power be fed into such a system I don't understand. These systems just plug into wall outlets. The big difference is that, instead of saving yourself money, you'd be saving your landlady money on the bill.
- bell-cot 7mo ago
  > I don't understand... I'm thinking that the landlady's "NO!" is based on: (1) You can't save yourself any money by doing this, so why are you interested?, and (2) Complex stuff that she doesn't know or understand about electricity and her property's wiring and whatever you might end up doing might end with her property burned down.
  - embedding-shape 7mo ago
    > Complex stuff that she doesn't know or understand about electricity and her property's wiring and whatever you might end up doing might end with her property burned down. What wiring? Literally connect the setup to the regular power outlet, no fuzzing with wires or otherwise, probably any human who've connected some electrical gadget/device to a socket before could get these solar setups going in a couple of minutes.
    - nozzlegear 7mo ago
      The landlady probably didn't know that.
      - embedding-shape 7mo ago
        Yeah, so I guess when both the renter and the landlord doesn't understand the solution (or renter does understand, but didn't explain properly), it'll be a hard sell indeed.
    - dave78 7mo ago
      Can't there can be over-current issues if you are not using a dedicated wall outlet for backfeeding the solar? Consider a situation where the plugged-in solar inverter is capable of providing 15 amps into the circuit, but so is the breaker feeding the circuit from the panel. If you plug in something that can consume 30 amps, it will be able to do so by pulling 15 amps from each source without tripping the breaker, so you can end up with 30 amps traveling in your building wiring that is only sized for 15. At least that's how I understand it. I don't know if any of the grid-tied inverters that can plug into a wall have some way of detecting and compensating for this. Clearly other countries have been able to come to a decision to allow it. I vaguely remember someone explaining that the 230V systems in Europe somehow mitigate the issue but I don't remember how.
MattGaiser 7mo ago
A lot of them just plug into a wall outlet.
TheOtherHobbes 7mo ago
A solar backpack is a backpack with a relatively tiny solar panel. It's not designed to power an apartment. It's barely designed to power a laptop. You wouldn't be plugging one of these into the mains. Solar systems are well understood, as is the business of connecting them to existing power. Magic boxes exist to handle exactly this problem. Connecting them up isn't hard, but installations usually require professional certification to stop people frying themselves and/or their wiring. DIY solar makes no sense if you're paying your building for unmetered power. Generally apartment solar can be a nice optional accessory, but very few apartments have the space for a system capable of powering the entire apartment for a significant part of the year.
dave78 7mo ago
> Our lease agreement has some concessions for potential satellite dishes and external TV antennas. This may be because the FCC has pretty strict rules that require apartment buildings to permit dishes and antennas on personal areas like balconies. Lack of similar laws for solar panels means that most landlords are going to just say "no" rather than take the risk.
throwaway894345 7mo ago
> how would solar power be fed into such a system An inverter. > management would have no way of regulating or maintaining such a bizarre setup What kind of regulation is needed? What about this is bizarre? If you’re concerned that these systems might be a fire hazard, that’s already a problem (space heaters, heating blankets, hot plates, etc). If you’re concerned that these systems won’t play nicely on a shared AC line, that’s already a problem (e.g., motors). I don’t see anything “bizarre” here.
- SAI_Peregrinus 7mo ago
  They provide a supply that bypasses the circuit's fuse. A malfunctioning device (not a dead short) might draw more current than its plug is rated for. E.g. a NEMA 5-15 plug is rated for 15A, it needs to be installed with 14AWG (minimum) wire, rated for 15A at +30°C temperature rise over ambient, and a 15A breaker. Loads on the circuit must not draw more than 80% of the circuit's rated current continuously, 0.8 * 15A * 120V = 1,440W (12A). US devices aren't required to be fused, it's possible for one to malfunction and draw more than the 12A max, without being a "dead short". If that happens and it draws, say, 16A, and you've got a 4A solar panel on the circuit then the breaker will see 12A, the solar panel will see 4A, and the wires in the circuit will see 16A, exceeding their rating & posing a fire hazard.
Aurornis 7mo ago
> My unit has an individual circuit breaker box, but how would solar power be fed into such a system? It would be chaos, and the management would have no way of regulating or maintaining such a bizarre setup. The balcony solar setups are sized to be small enough that they can be fed into standard systems. There’s no “chaos”. It just offsets consumption a little bit. New electric meters have been able to account for or at least not get confused by reverse flow should it occur at the small levels that balcony solar setups might produce.
deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]
wooger 7mo ago
You're renting, AND you have unmetered electricity; why the hell would you bother with solar panels? If anything you should be building a nice home Nvidia AI cluster to take advantage of that free power.
- ButlerianJihad 7mo ago
  > building a nice home Nvidia AI cluster That is an extraordinarily arrogant and entitled attitude. Our electricity is not "free"; it is included in our rental costs. Therefore, if tenants tend to abuse this structure to consume massive amounts of "free power" then everyone's rent would be increased to compensate. The correct collectivist response is to be quite frugal with my own electricity and water usage, so that I do not adversely impact my own rent or that of my neighbors. If everyone chooses this frugality, then we may enjoy years of low rental costs and reduce the burden on our entire grid. Unfortunately, I cannot count on my neighbors to be considerate or frugal, and that leaves me more or less helpless in terms of collective resource usage.

fortran77 7mo ago

And also liability for things falling out of windows.

elijaht 7mo ago
Is that not also a concern for window AC units?
- fortran77 7mo ago
  Yes. Which is why laws require brackets, etc. But landlords have to allow window air conditioners (installed properly, etc) because old people can die in the heat. They're less likely to want to accept liability for something not required by law. Air Conditioners also injure firefighters because they tend to fall during fires: https://nypost.com/2026/01/06/us-news/nyc-bravest-hit-in-head-by-falling-ac-during-raging-inferno/ https://nypost.com/2026/01/06/us-news/nyc-bravest-hit-in-hea...

timdiggerm 7mo ago

> Our electricity is unmetered and included in our rent. My unit has an individual circuit breaker box, but how would solar power be fed into such a system I don't understand. These systems just plug into wall outlets. The big difference is that, instead of saving yourself money, you'd be saving your landlady money on the bill.

bell-cot 7mo ago
> I don't understand... I'm thinking that the landlady's "NO!" is based on: (1) You can't save yourself any money by doing this, so why are you interested?, and (2) Complex stuff that she doesn't know or understand about electricity and her property's wiring and whatever you might end up doing might end with her property burned down.
- embedding-shape 7mo ago
  > Complex stuff that she doesn't know or understand about electricity and her property's wiring and whatever you might end up doing might end with her property burned down. What wiring? Literally connect the setup to the regular power outlet, no fuzzing with wires or otherwise, probably any human who've connected some electrical gadget/device to a socket before could get these solar setups going in a couple of minutes.
  - nozzlegear 7mo ago
    The landlady probably didn't know that.
    - embedding-shape 7mo ago
      Yeah, so I guess when both the renter and the landlord doesn't understand the solution (or renter does understand, but didn't explain properly), it'll be a hard sell indeed.
  - dave78 7mo ago
    Can't there can be over-current issues if you are not using a dedicated wall outlet for backfeeding the solar? Consider a situation where the plugged-in solar inverter is capable of providing 15 amps into the circuit, but so is the breaker feeding the circuit from the panel. If you plug in something that can consume 30 amps, it will be able to do so by pulling 15 amps from each source without tripping the breaker, so you can end up with 30 amps traveling in your building wiring that is only sized for 15. At least that's how I understand it. I don't know if any of the grid-tied inverters that can plug into a wall have some way of detecting and compensating for this. Clearly other countries have been able to come to a decision to allow it. I vaguely remember someone explaining that the 230V systems in Europe somehow mitigate the issue but I don't remember how.

MattGaiser 7mo ago

A lot of them just plug into a wall outlet.

TheOtherHobbes 7mo ago

A solar backpack is a backpack with a relatively tiny solar panel. It's not designed to power an apartment. It's barely designed to power a laptop. You wouldn't be plugging one of these into the mains. Solar systems are well understood, as is the business of connecting them to existing power. Magic boxes exist to handle exactly this problem. Connecting them up isn't hard, but installations usually require professional certification to stop people frying themselves and/or their wiring. DIY solar makes no sense if you're paying your building for unmetered power. Generally apartment solar can be a nice optional accessory, but very few apartments have the space for a system capable of powering the entire apartment for a significant part of the year.

dave78 7mo ago

> Our lease agreement has some concessions for potential satellite dishes and external TV antennas. This may be because the FCC has pretty strict rules that require apartment buildings to permit dishes and antennas on personal areas like balconies. Lack of similar laws for solar panels means that most landlords are going to just say "no" rather than take the risk.

throwaway894345 7mo ago

> how would solar power be fed into such a system An inverter. > management would have no way of regulating or maintaining such a bizarre setup What kind of regulation is needed? What about this is bizarre? If you’re concerned that these systems might be a fire hazard, that’s already a problem (space heaters, heating blankets, hot plates, etc). If you’re concerned that these systems won’t play nicely on a shared AC line, that’s already a problem (e.g., motors). I don’t see anything “bizarre” here.

SAI_Peregrinus 7mo ago
They provide a supply that bypasses the circuit's fuse. A malfunctioning device (not a dead short) might draw more current than its plug is rated for. E.g. a NEMA 5-15 plug is rated for 15A, it needs to be installed with 14AWG (minimum) wire, rated for 15A at +30°C temperature rise over ambient, and a 15A breaker. Loads on the circuit must not draw more than 80% of the circuit's rated current continuously, 0.8 * 15A * 120V = 1,440W (12A). US devices aren't required to be fused, it's possible for one to malfunction and draw more than the 12A max, without being a "dead short". If that happens and it draws, say, 16A, and you've got a 4A solar panel on the circuit then the breaker will see 12A, the solar panel will see 4A, and the wires in the circuit will see 16A, exceeding their rating & posing a fire hazard.

Aurornis 7mo ago

> My unit has an individual circuit breaker box, but how would solar power be fed into such a system? It would be chaos, and the management would have no way of regulating or maintaining such a bizarre setup. The balcony solar setups are sized to be small enough that they can be fed into standard systems. There’s no “chaos”. It just offsets consumption a little bit. New electric meters have been able to account for or at least not get confused by reverse flow should it occur at the small levels that balcony solar setups might produce.

deleted 7mo ago

[deleted]

wooger 7mo ago

You're renting, AND you have unmetered electricity; why the hell would you bother with solar panels? If anything you should be building a nice home Nvidia AI cluster to take advantage of that free power.

ButlerianJihad 7mo ago
> building a nice home Nvidia AI cluster That is an extraordinarily arrogant and entitled attitude. Our electricity is not "free"; it is included in our rental costs. Therefore, if tenants tend to abuse this structure to consume massive amounts of "free power" then everyone's rent would be increased to compensate. The correct collectivist response is to be quite frugal with my own electricity and water usage, so that I do not adversely impact my own rent or that of my neighbors. If everyone chooses this frugality, then we may enjoy years of low rental costs and reduce the burden on our entire grid. Unfortunately, I cannot count on my neighbors to be considerate or frugal, and that leaves me more or less helpless in terms of collective resource usage.