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Which is why Raspberry PIs are more valuable to me than an x86 NUC, even if the prices are similar. There are no ARM NUCs at such prices, and even if there wer

by pjmlp 7mo ago

Which is why Raspberry PIs are more valuable to me than an x86 NUC, even if the prices are similar. There are no ARM NUCs at such prices, and even if there were the GNU/Linux support would be horrible.

joe_mamba 7mo ago
I don't get how your argument infers from your parents comment. To me it would be the opposite conclusion: stay away from ARM SBCs with proprietary firmware and just go Intel-x86 NUCs if you don't want surprises. And yes, RPI was(is?) a proprietary-FW SBC as the Broadcom VideoCore GPU driver was never open sourced from the start and relied on community efforts for reverse engineering, which the rPI foundation then leveraged to sell their products at a markup to commercial customers after the FOSS community did all the legwork for them for free. Like so long and thanks for all the fish. Meanwhile Intel iGPUs had full linux kernel drivers out of the box. That's why they're great Jellyfin transcoding servers.
- pjmlp 7mo ago
  If I don't want surprises!?! I had to throw away, literally, a Gigabyte BRIX, because its firmware did not recognised any distro I throwed at it from internal drives, only if connected externally over USB. The experiements with various kinds of SSD modules, Linux distros, and UEFI booting partitions, end up killing the motherboard in someway due to me manipulating it all the time, whatever. Raspberry PIs are the only NUCs I can buy in something like Conrad Electronic, and be assured it actually works without me going through it as if I had just bough Linux Unleashed in 1995's Summer.
  - joe_mamba 7mo ago
    Luckily, the X86 NUC ecosystem is not defined by your unfortunate experience with a Gigabyte BRIX. Exceptions don't define the norm.
    - pjmlp 7mo ago
      Which physical stores sell X86 NUCs with OEM supported Linux distributions pre-installed?
      - joe_mamba 7mo ago
        IDK, why does this matter? What if there's no retail stores close to me? I haven't been into a retail electronics store in years, when online ordering and easy returns makes it so much more convenient, especially for cases like yours with the Gigabyte Brix not working properly. So what were you trying to prove with this because I'm confused as you keep own-goaling yourself. The thing is, for such a niche use-cases it's expected it's not gonna have major retailer availability since it's not something the general consumer is gonna be knowledgeable enough for it to sell in high volumes to be wort for retail stores wherever you may live to stock up shelves on NUCs with Linux preinstalled just to cater to your limited demographic who refuses to order online for some reason, is a very tall order and not really a good faith argument for anything. The market for people who are like "ah shit, I need to spontaneously go out to the store and pick up a NUC right fucking now, and it has to have Linux preinstalled, because I can't wait a couple of days till it arrives online or know how to install Linux myself", is really REALLY small.
        pjmlp 7mo ago
        It does, because I get to punch someone if it doesn't work, instead of looking hopless to an online form. On a more serious note, how do you want normies to get introduced to the Year of Desktop Linux, outside WebOS LG TVs, Android/Linux and ChromeOS, instead of getting Mac minis and Neos at said stores? I guess it is buying SteamDecks to play Windows games. /s Raspeberry PIs are the few devices that normies can buy with GNU/Linux pre-installed.
        joe_mamba 7mo ago
        Now I'm certain I don't want to deal(even on the internet) with people who consider punching low wage workers in retail sector, as the acceptable resolution for their issues with product defects of manufacturer. Especially given this is what free returns of online orders is good for, makes it even more looney. LE to your reply from below here: Excuse me but a form of expression for what? The spec sheet of that Gigabyte Brix explicitly lists only Windows 11 as the supported OS, not Linux. You tried to install an unsupported OS, and you broke it in the process. What exactly do you expect the retail store workers to do to fix the issue you yourself caused via using the product in a way it wasn't advertised? You can contact the manufacturer for warranty or return it via the online return window, but the fuckup is still on your end and not the issue of retail workers.
dspillett 7mo ago
With the caveat that I might be slightly out of touch (I have nothing beyond the Pi4/400 and the last x86 mini-box I bought was over a year ago)… IMO the key benefit of a Pi over an x86/a64 box, assuming you aren't using the IO breakouts and such, is power efficiency (particularly at idle-ish). The benefits of the x86/a64 boxes is computing power and being all-in-one (my need was due to my Pi4-based router becoming the bottleneck when my home line was upgraded to ~Gbit, and I wanted something with 2+ built-in NICs rather than relying on USB so didn't even look into the Pi5). Both options beat other SBC based options due to software support, the x86/a64 machines because support is essentially baked in and the rPi by virtue of the Pi foundation and the wider community making great efforts to plug any holes. A Pi range used to win significantly on price (or at least price/performance) too, but that is not the case these days.

by pjmlp 7mo ago

joe_mamba 7mo ago

I don't get how your argument infers from your parents comment. To me it would be the opposite conclusion: stay away from ARM SBCs with proprietary firmware and just go Intel-x86 NUCs if you don't want surprises. And yes, RPI was(is?) a proprietary-FW SBC as the Broadcom VideoCore GPU driver was never open sourced from the start and relied on community efforts for reverse engineering, which the rPI foundation then leveraged to sell their products at a markup to commercial customers after the FOSS community did all the legwork for them for free. Like so long and thanks for all the fish. Meanwhile Intel iGPUs had full linux kernel drivers out of the box. That's why they're great Jellyfin transcoding servers.

pjmlp 7mo ago
If I don't want surprises!?! I had to throw away, literally, a Gigabyte BRIX, because its firmware did not recognised any distro I throwed at it from internal drives, only if connected externally over USB. The experiements with various kinds of SSD modules, Linux distros, and UEFI booting partitions, end up killing the motherboard in someway due to me manipulating it all the time, whatever. Raspberry PIs are the only NUCs I can buy in something like Conrad Electronic, and be assured it actually works without me going through it as if I had just bough Linux Unleashed in 1995's Summer.
- joe_mamba 7mo ago
  Luckily, the X86 NUC ecosystem is not defined by your unfortunate experience with a Gigabyte BRIX. Exceptions don't define the norm.
  - pjmlp 7mo ago
    Which physical stores sell X86 NUCs with OEM supported Linux distributions pre-installed?
    - joe_mamba 7mo ago
      IDK, why does this matter? What if there's no retail stores close to me? I haven't been into a retail electronics store in years, when online ordering and easy returns makes it so much more convenient, especially for cases like yours with the Gigabyte Brix not working properly. So what were you trying to prove with this because I'm confused as you keep own-goaling yourself. The thing is, for such a niche use-cases it's expected it's not gonna have major retailer availability since it's not something the general consumer is gonna be knowledgeable enough for it to sell in high volumes to be wort for retail stores wherever you may live to stock up shelves on NUCs with Linux preinstalled just to cater to your limited demographic who refuses to order online for some reason, is a very tall order and not really a good faith argument for anything. The market for people who are like "ah shit, I need to spontaneously go out to the store and pick up a NUC right fucking now, and it has to have Linux preinstalled, because I can't wait a couple of days till it arrives online or know how to install Linux myself", is really REALLY small.
      - pjmlp 7mo ago
        It does, because I get to punch someone if it doesn't work, instead of looking hopless to an online form. On a more serious note, how do you want normies to get introduced to the Year of Desktop Linux, outside WebOS LG TVs, Android/Linux and ChromeOS, instead of getting Mac minis and Neos at said stores? I guess it is buying SteamDecks to play Windows games. /s Raspeberry PIs are the few devices that normies can buy with GNU/Linux pre-installed.
        joe_mamba 7mo ago
        Now I'm certain I don't want to deal(even on the internet) with people who consider punching low wage workers in retail sector, as the acceptable resolution for their issues with product defects of manufacturer. Especially given this is what free returns of online orders is good for, makes it even more looney. LE to your reply from below here: Excuse me but a form of expression for what? The spec sheet of that Gigabyte Brix explicitly lists only Windows 11 as the supported OS, not Linux. You tried to install an unsupported OS, and you broke it in the process. What exactly do you expect the retail store workers to do to fix the issue you yourself caused via using the product in a way it wasn't advertised? You can contact the manufacturer for warranty or return it via the online return window, but the fuckup is still on your end and not the issue of retail workers.

dspillett 7mo ago

With the caveat that I might be slightly out of touch (I have nothing beyond the Pi4/400 and the last x86 mini-box I bought was over a year ago)… IMO the key benefit of a Pi over an x86/a64 box, assuming you aren't using the IO breakouts and such, is power efficiency (particularly at idle-ish). The benefits of the x86/a64 boxes is computing power and being all-in-one (my need was due to my Pi4-based router becoming the bottleneck when my home line was upgraded to ~Gbit, and I wanted something with 2+ built-in NICs rather than relying on USB so didn't even look into the Pi5). Both options beat other SBC based options due to software support, the x86/a64 machines because support is essentially baked in and the rPi by virtue of the Pi foundation and the wider community making great efforts to plug any holes. A Pi range used to win significantly on price (or at least price/performance) too, but that is not the case these days.