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Note: the terminal (Terminal.app) has very little to do with the Linux kernel. It is not a 'linux console'. Currently my understanding is that you basically ha

Note: the terminal (Terminal.app) has very little to do with the Linux kernel. It is not a 'linux console'. Currently my understanding is that you basically have to go into the linux console to have any control over it. I use multiple monitors (or a projector) daily, for me it has always worked, and it's easy to toggle mirroring, indicate where the Dock should be, changing the layout, etc. via the Display Preferences. Apple seems to not give a fuck about backwards compatibility across ios and osx. Compared to...? Windows, yes. Linux? OS X is definitely better there. Usually the only manner to guarantee compatibility on Linux is to compile software on an older distribution and/or including the shared libraries with your application. On OS X, I can at least trivially compile for older versions. for some reason the only way to do this is to call apple on the phone and read them your credit card info so they can ship it to you which will take weeks What does that have to do with backward compatibility? XCode is much worse than Visual Studio in too many ways to list. At least they provide a C99 compiler ;). (And good C++11 support.) I don't love windows or microsoft at all, but apple does not cater to developers in any way. clang? LLVM? Instruments? DTrace? Out of the box support for Python and Ruby? I don't love windows or microsoft at all, but apple does not cater to developers in any way. It's funny that you compare Apple, which gives all its development tools away for free, with a company that charges 615 Euro to get a Pro version of their development tools, and suggest that the latter is developer-friendly. Finder is awful across the board. Agreed.

CJefferson 14y ago
While they do now have a good compiler (clang), there was an (in my opinion) unforgivable period of 4 years or so where we were stuck with a buggy g++ 4.2.
jheriko 14y ago
bs. apples tools cost money, as does the developer license and vs express has been around well for the last 4 years now at least...
- pooriaazimi 14y ago
  Xcode, interface builder and Instruments are free. For a few weeks last year, you had to buy them for 0.99$, but they changed their mind and now they're free (as they have been previously).
pm215 14y ago
Multiple monitor support is one of the bits of MacOS that most annoys me. Some quick sample problems: * if you have a laptop connected to an external monitor, and you disconnect the monitor then all your windows migrate to the laptop display. But they don't migrate back again when you plug the monitor in again, so you're stuck with a lot of manual window rearrangement (or third party utilities to work around it) * the menu bar only appears on one monitor, so if you're dealing with a window on the other monitor there's a huge trek with the mouse to get to the menu. (this is kind of fallout from the fundamental choice that the menu doesn't attach to the window, so I can see why it works the way it does, but it suggests that a UI which worked on the Mac Classic might be being a bit strained in a modern world of multiple large monitors) * new windows/dialog boxes often appear on the "wrong" monitor * fullscreening an app on monitor A removes all the app windows on monitor B So I can see why the parent might be irritated too.
WayneDB 14y ago
...Apple, which gives all its development tools away for free... I have to purchase some overpriced PC hardware to run Xcode though. Meanwhile, I can run a complete Windows development environment of in a remote hyper-visor VM on commodity hardware (and I do). On OS X, I can at least trivially compile for older versions. I can write a program today on Windows 7 and go install it on Windows XP, a system that was released over 11 years ago. I can also make a program that will run on Windows 95 or 98. Can you do that from OS X to Mac OS 8 or 9? How well do Mac OS 8/9 programs run in OS X? Do you really think they run as well as Win 95/98/XP programs run on Windows 7 or 8? Do you actually run programs from that era? Which ones? It's funny that you compare Apple, which gives all its development tools away for free [minus the cost of a Mac], with a company that charges 615 Euro to get a Pro version of their development tools, and suggest that the latter is developer-friendly. That's not why people often say that Apple is not developer friendly. There are many reasons but I believe the primary one is that Apple often locks out developers where Microsoft does not. For instance, only Apple can affect NSScreen visibleFrame. Nobody else. That's why every Dock replacement on OS X has the same bug: windows end up beneath the replacement dock when "maximized". Microsoft also creates tools and frameworks for all types of developer stories where Apple simply has nothing. Corporate developers, game developers and add-in developers. (Apple doesn't even have official APIs for developing add-ins for products whereas Microsoft created an entire markets for Visual Studio add-ins or Office add-ins.)
- danieldk 14y ago
  I have to purchase some overpriced PC hardware to run Xcode though. That has very little to do with developer-friendliness, since it applies to any Mac or iOS-only application. I can write a program today on Windows 7 and go install it on Windows XP, a system that was released over 11 years ago. I know, that's why I asked what he is comparing the backward compatibility too. Microsoft goes through great pains to guarantee backward compatibility, I wish Apple would go so far. But backward compatibility on OS X is definitely better than e.g. Linux. There are many reasons but I believe the primary one is that Apple often locks out developers where Microsoft does not. For instance, only Apple can affect NSScreen visibleFrame. Microsoft also has a history of private APIs. In fact, it is well known that Microsoft used APIs only available to them to get an edge over competition. Even Windows RT has such limits. E.g. Microsoft is the only developer that can use the desktop mode on Surface RT tablets. Microsoft also creates tools and frameworks for all types of developer stories where Apple simply has nothing. Well, it's no secret that Apple is not really in the enterprise server market. So, no, you'll not find an equivalent of Microsoft's enterprise .NET stack. Fortunately, you can use Java or any mixture of widely-used open source libraries, which are often far easier to compile and use, given that OS X is a fairly regular UNIX.

CJefferson 14y ago

While they do now have a good compiler (clang), there was an (in my opinion) unforgivable period of 4 years or so where we were stuck with a buggy g++ 4.2.

jheriko 14y ago

bs. apples tools cost money, as does the developer license and vs express has been around well for the last 4 years now at least...

pooriaazimi 14y ago
Xcode, interface builder and Instruments are free. For a few weeks last year, you had to buy them for 0.99$, but they changed their mind and now they're free (as they have been previously).

pm215 14y ago

Multiple monitor support is one of the bits of MacOS that most annoys me. Some quick sample problems: * if you have a laptop connected to an external monitor, and you disconnect the monitor then all your windows migrate to the laptop display. But they don't migrate back again when you plug the monitor in again, so you're stuck with a lot of manual window rearrangement (or third party utilities to work around it) * the menu bar only appears on one monitor, so if you're dealing with a window on the other monitor there's a huge trek with the mouse to get to the menu. (this is kind of fallout from the fundamental choice that the menu doesn't attach to the window, so I can see why it works the way it does, but it suggests that a UI which worked on the Mac Classic might be being a bit strained in a modern world of multiple large monitors) * new windows/dialog boxes often appear on the "wrong" monitor * fullscreening an app on monitor A removes all the app windows on monitor B So I can see why the parent might be irritated too.

WayneDB 14y ago

...Apple, which gives all its development tools away for free... I have to purchase some overpriced PC hardware to run Xcode though. Meanwhile, I can run a complete Windows development environment of in a remote hyper-visor VM on commodity hardware (and I do). On OS X, I can at least trivially compile for older versions. I can write a program today on Windows 7 and go install it on Windows XP, a system that was released over 11 years ago. I can also make a program that will run on Windows 95 or 98. Can you do that from OS X to Mac OS 8 or 9? How well do Mac OS 8/9 programs run in OS X? Do you really think they run as well as Win 95/98/XP programs run on Windows 7 or 8? Do you actually run programs from that era? Which ones? It's funny that you compare Apple, which gives all its development tools away for free [minus the cost of a Mac], with a company that charges 615 Euro to get a Pro version of their development tools, and suggest that the latter is developer-friendly. That's not why people often say that Apple is not developer friendly. There are many reasons but I believe the primary one is that Apple often locks out developers where Microsoft does not. For instance, only Apple can affect NSScreen visibleFrame. Nobody else. That's why every Dock replacement on OS X has the same bug: windows end up beneath the replacement dock when "maximized". Microsoft also creates tools and frameworks for all types of developer stories where Apple simply has nothing. Corporate developers, game developers and add-in developers. (Apple doesn't even have official APIs for developing add-ins for products whereas Microsoft created an entire markets for Visual Studio add-ins or Office add-ins.)

danieldk 14y ago
I have to purchase some overpriced PC hardware to run Xcode though. That has very little to do with developer-friendliness, since it applies to any Mac or iOS-only application. I can write a program today on Windows 7 and go install it on Windows XP, a system that was released over 11 years ago. I know, that's why I asked what he is comparing the backward compatibility too. Microsoft goes through great pains to guarantee backward compatibility, I wish Apple would go so far. But backward compatibility on OS X is definitely better than e.g. Linux. There are many reasons but I believe the primary one is that Apple often locks out developers where Microsoft does not. For instance, only Apple can affect NSScreen visibleFrame. Microsoft also has a history of private APIs. In fact, it is well known that Microsoft used APIs only available to them to get an edge over competition. Even Windows RT has such limits. E.g. Microsoft is the only developer that can use the desktop mode on Surface RT tablets. Microsoft also creates tools and frameworks for all types of developer stories where Apple simply has nothing. Well, it's no secret that Apple is not really in the enterprise server market. So, no, you'll not find an equivalent of Microsoft's enterprise .NET stack. Fortunately, you can use Java or any mixture of widely-used open source libraries, which are often far easier to compile and use, given that OS X is a fairly regular UNIX.