5 ms·

I followed the shooting at Brown University last year very closely. Brown's leadership was heavily criticized for having camera blind spots and not being able t

by jimmar 6mo ago

I followed the shooting at Brown University last year very closely. Brown's leadership was heavily criticized for having camera blind spots and not being able to track the shooter's exact movements through campus. I can understand why people with stewardship over the safety of their students/customers/constituents would make decisions to err on the side of tracking. I'm not saying I agree with it, but I understand it.

sfblah 6mo ago
With most of these things, people are against state power until they are victimized. It’s a common pattern.
- the_doctah 6mo ago
  People hate cops until they need one
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
  - engineer_22 6mo ago
    Police work for the State. The State orders them to work for the Public when it interests the State. Intervening in violent crime and property crime can be seen, cynically, as a PR move. To be beholden to the State for justice and protection is fine when the State is beholden to the Public for their consent. Today, in the West, the Public has been so thoroughly disarmed, and /disrobed/, that consent is a formality, consent can no longer be withheld. Look no further than Flock and FISA for the ongoing crisis of consent. When cops are released from the State apparatus, they'll be given the respect and admiration they deserve. Until then, it's difficult to separate them from their incentive structure.
  - potsandpans 6mo ago
    Most people hate cops after they need one too.
  - someothherguyy 6mo ago
    > People hate cops until they need one that doesn't seem to be the case always, given the data on crime reporting: "Patterns in police reporting for property crime during 2020–2023 were similar to those for violent crime. A quarter (25%) of all property victimizations in urban areas were reported to police, which was lower than the percentages in suburban (33%) and rural (36%) areas (figure 2). Similar to overall property victimization, a lower percentage of other theft victimizations were reported to police in urban areas (20%) compared to suburban (28%) and rural (31%) areas." https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/reporting-police-type-crime-and-location-residence-2020-2023/web-report https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/reporting-police-ty... "For violent crimes, in 1997, 7% of victims stated that “Police wouldn’t help” as the reason they did not call the police. This more than doubled to 16% by 2021. For property crimes, the corresponding rates were 12% in 1997 and 18% in 2021" https://datacollaborativeforjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Crossroads_NCVS_Report.pdf https://datacollaborativeforjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2...
  - wildrhythms 6mo ago
    Ah yes, a pro-cop 'hacker' in the wild
- nullc 6mo ago
  With most of these things, people are for state power until they are victimized by it. It's a common pattern. :D I've had property stolen. Cameras generally won't help, and didn't help. Limiting ingredient is often not knowing who did it in any case-- in most places most common crime is committed by a tiny number of regular characters. Go look at the mountains of threads online where someone had a tracker enabled object stolen and knew exactly who had it only to have law enforcement do nothing.
mcmcmc 6mo ago
Camera blind spots are solved with more cameras and correct positioning, not automated AI surveillance.
- bob1029 6mo ago
  Crazy how it's always a data problem in the end.
kyrra 6mo ago
The criticism around that event, I believe, involved Brown University disablinf cameras trying to protect potential illegal immigrants being targeted by ice. It wasn't the lack of cameras. It was a purposeful disabling of said cameras that already existed.
- the_doctah 6mo ago
  Whoever made that decision should be held liable.
  - defrosting 6mo ago
    Correct, whoever made the decision to create ICE, as it became a security risk that lead to deaths. Glad that's what you said, and no other valid interpretation.
    - the_doctah 6mo ago
      Yes, let's have no federal immigration enforcement entity in this country, novel idea.
      - lesuorac 6mo ago
        Well, while I don't know you personally. Most working people are older than ICE. It's actually a relatively new agency and clearly not effective.
        the_doctah 6mo ago
        [flagged]
        Larrikin 6mo ago
        It's pretty gross you're deciding a person's value based on if they fit your political narrative. They were all victims
sodality2 6mo ago
This is a very common pattern; my university pushed through a ZeroEyes AI camera/open carry weapon detection contract within 2 weeks of a shooting at a nearby school, even though it’s trivial to bypass by hiding it; it’s most probably just (gruesome as it is to think about) a bad press insurance so if anything happened, they can say they had “state of the art AI detection” and they did all they could. No one wants to be the one caught not doing “all they could” against the media cacophony in the immediate aftermath.
- jmcgough 6mo ago
  and then some kid gets tackled by a team of armed police when AI flags a bag of doritos as a gun. https://abc7.com/post/student-handcuffed-doritos-bag-mistaken-gun-schools-ai-security-system-baltimore-county-maryland/18073796/ https://abc7.com/post/student-handcuffed-doritos-bag-mistake...
  - sodality2 6mo ago
    Yep, here they admitted there were local revolutionary war re-enactors who were falsely flagged (although thankfully they didn't let it get past the first flag).
crm9125 6mo ago
I'm sorry... people think that the problem with, a school shooting, is camera placement? Something, something, forest, trees.
- TheTxT 6mo ago
  "No way to prevent this" says the only country where this regularly happens
  - lobofta 6mo ago
    Arm the teachers!
    - boxed 6mo ago
      When a teacher then shoots their entire class: arm the students!
      - noisy_boy 6mo ago
        Given the teacher to student ratio: this kills the teacher.
        uneekname 6mo ago
        Whoosh
      - M3L0NM4N 6mo ago
        I got my BS in Computer Science legally carrying a Glock in every class. I think it's very likely I was the only person doing so; Not because I was fearful, but because I like being prepared. It takes very little long-term effort for people to carry pepper spray, a gun (if able), and a first aid kit everywhere they go. You never know who's life you might save.
        kjkjadksj 6mo ago
wraptile 6mo ago
I recently did a dive into ASPD (Antisocial Personality Disorder i.e. sociopaths) and unsurprisingly most what's stopping them from outright killing people is the likelihood that they'd be caught. So one thing is clear is that as long as we have sociopaths and the like who treat crime purely as value/risk proposition some sort of powerful detective tooling will always be necessary. Unfortunately automated surveillance is considered the best detective tool we have but in reality it doesn't seem to be the case with public self surveillance and good ol' park a policeman box in every neighborhood seems to outperform automated surveillance. So there's much more to this than "surveillance is bad or good" discussions we have right now.
- spacebacon 6mo ago
  Correct. The Leviathan. A reasonable person should be able to argue for and against both sides.

by jimmar 6mo ago

sfblah 6mo ago

With most of these things, people are against state power until they are victimized. It’s a common pattern.

the_doctah 6mo ago
People hate cops until they need one
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- engineer_22 6mo ago
  Police work for the State. The State orders them to work for the Public when it interests the State. Intervening in violent crime and property crime can be seen, cynically, as a PR move. To be beholden to the State for justice and protection is fine when the State is beholden to the Public for their consent. Today, in the West, the Public has been so thoroughly disarmed, and /disrobed/, that consent is a formality, consent can no longer be withheld. Look no further than Flock and FISA for the ongoing crisis of consent. When cops are released from the State apparatus, they'll be given the respect and admiration they deserve. Until then, it's difficult to separate them from their incentive structure.
- potsandpans 6mo ago
  Most people hate cops after they need one too.
- someothherguyy 6mo ago
  > People hate cops until they need one that doesn't seem to be the case always, given the data on crime reporting: "Patterns in police reporting for property crime during 2020–2023 were similar to those for violent crime. A quarter (25%) of all property victimizations in urban areas were reported to police, which was lower than the percentages in suburban (33%) and rural (36%) areas (figure 2). Similar to overall property victimization, a lower percentage of other theft victimizations were reported to police in urban areas (20%) compared to suburban (28%) and rural (31%) areas." https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/reporting-police-type-crime-and-location-residence-2020-2023/web-report https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/reporting-police-ty... "For violent crimes, in 1997, 7% of victims stated that “Police wouldn’t help” as the reason they did not call the police. This more than doubled to 16% by 2021. For property crimes, the corresponding rates were 12% in 1997 and 18% in 2021" https://datacollaborativeforjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Crossroads_NCVS_Report.pdf https://datacollaborativeforjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2...
- wildrhythms 6mo ago
  Ah yes, a pro-cop 'hacker' in the wild
nullc 6mo ago
With most of these things, people are for state power until they are victimized by it. It's a common pattern. :D I've had property stolen. Cameras generally won't help, and didn't help. Limiting ingredient is often not knowing who did it in any case-- in most places most common crime is committed by a tiny number of regular characters. Go look at the mountains of threads online where someone had a tracker enabled object stolen and knew exactly who had it only to have law enforcement do nothing.

mcmcmc 6mo ago

Camera blind spots are solved with more cameras and correct positioning, not automated AI surveillance.

bob1029 6mo ago
Crazy how it's always a data problem in the end.

kyrra 6mo ago

The criticism around that event, I believe, involved Brown University disablinf cameras trying to protect potential illegal immigrants being targeted by ice. It wasn't the lack of cameras. It was a purposeful disabling of said cameras that already existed.

the_doctah 6mo ago
Whoever made that decision should be held liable.
- defrosting 6mo ago
  Correct, whoever made the decision to create ICE, as it became a security risk that lead to deaths. Glad that's what you said, and no other valid interpretation.
  - the_doctah 6mo ago
    Yes, let's have no federal immigration enforcement entity in this country, novel idea.
    - lesuorac 6mo ago
      Well, while I don't know you personally. Most working people are older than ICE. It's actually a relatively new agency and clearly not effective.
      - the_doctah 6mo ago
        [flagged]
        Larrikin 6mo ago
        It's pretty gross you're deciding a person's value based on if they fit your political narrative. They were all victims

sodality2 6mo ago

This is a very common pattern; my university pushed through a ZeroEyes AI camera/open carry weapon detection contract within 2 weeks of a shooting at a nearby school, even though it’s trivial to bypass by hiding it; it’s most probably just (gruesome as it is to think about) a bad press insurance so if anything happened, they can say they had “state of the art AI detection” and they did all they could. No one wants to be the one caught not doing “all they could” against the media cacophony in the immediate aftermath.

jmcgough 6mo ago
and then some kid gets tackled by a team of armed police when AI flags a bag of doritos as a gun. https://abc7.com/post/student-handcuffed-doritos-bag-mistaken-gun-schools-ai-security-system-baltimore-county-maryland/18073796/ https://abc7.com/post/student-handcuffed-doritos-bag-mistake...
- sodality2 6mo ago
  Yep, here they admitted there were local revolutionary war re-enactors who were falsely flagged (although thankfully they didn't let it get past the first flag).

crm9125 6mo ago

I'm sorry... people think that the problem with, a school shooting, is camera placement? Something, something, forest, trees.

TheTxT 6mo ago
"No way to prevent this" says the only country where this regularly happens
- lobofta 6mo ago
  Arm the teachers!
  - boxed 6mo ago
    When a teacher then shoots their entire class: arm the students!
    - noisy_boy 6mo ago
      Given the teacher to student ratio: this kills the teacher.
      - uneekname 6mo ago
        Whoosh
    - M3L0NM4N 6mo ago
      I got my BS in Computer Science legally carrying a Glock in every class. I think it's very likely I was the only person doing so; Not because I was fearful, but because I like being prepared. It takes very little long-term effort for people to carry pepper spray, a gun (if able), and a first aid kit everywhere they go. You never know who's life you might save.
      - kjkjadksj 6mo ago

wraptile 6mo ago

I recently did a dive into ASPD (Antisocial Personality Disorder i.e. sociopaths) and unsurprisingly most what's stopping them from outright killing people is the likelihood that they'd be caught. So one thing is clear is that as long as we have sociopaths and the like who treat crime purely as value/risk proposition some sort of powerful detective tooling will always be necessary. Unfortunately automated surveillance is considered the best detective tool we have but in reality it doesn't seem to be the case with public self surveillance and good ol' park a policeman box in every neighborhood seems to outperform automated surveillance. So there's much more to this than "surveillance is bad or good" discussions we have right now.

spacebacon 6mo ago
Correct. The Leviathan. A reasonable person should be able to argue for and against both sides.