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> This sounds extremely non economically viable. Many things government does are not economically viable. That's why they get left to government. > Won’t it j

> This sounds extremely non economically viable. Many things government does are not economically viable. That's why they get left to government. > Won’t it just cause neighboring stores to close? The idea is to build these where that has already occurred.

WalterBright 7mo ago
[flagged]
- ceejayoz 7mo ago
  > Maybe they should look into why the closings occurred. Do you think there's no research on the causes of food deserts?
  - WalterBright 7mo ago
    Store closings are nearly always the result of them not being profitable.
    - ceejayoz 7mo ago
      Sure. Lots of things governments need to do are unprofitable, like delivering the mail or repairing the roads. I can go to my local public library, borrow the free books, use the free computers, sit in the free chairs, ask the librarian for free guidance, enjoy the free air conditioning, and even book a free meeting room to meet up with some friends to work on a project. Profitable? Fuck no. Great to have in my city? Fuck yes.
      - WalterBright 7mo ago
        Privately run grocery stores have been profitable for 250 years in the US. What has changed recently? Could it be the decriminalization of shoplifting? Or maybe excessive taxes? Or mandates on wages? Vandalism? I forgot to add homeless camping around them, which discourages shoppers.
        ceejayoz 7mo ago
        > Could it be the decriminalization of shoplifting? Or maybe excessive taxes? Or mandates on wages? Could it be the K-shaped economy? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-08/top-1-earners-hold-more-wealth-than-the-u-s-middle-class https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-08/top-1-ear... "After years of declines, America’s middle class now holds a smaller share of U.S. wealth than the top 1%." "Over the past 30 years, 10 percentage points of American wealth has shifted to the top 20% of earners, who now hold 70% of the total, Fed data show."
        WalterBright 7mo ago
        "Share" of the wealth says nothing about what the amount is. For example, if you create $10 of wealth, my share of the total wealth goes down, but my wealth is unaffected.
        ceejayoz 7mo ago
        https://www.marketplace.org/story/2023/01/16/how-the-worlds-richest-people-became-much-richer-during-the-pandemic https://www.marketplace.org/story/2023/01/16/how-the-worlds-... "About $42 trillion in new wealth was created in the first two years of the pandemic. Two-thirds of that has gone to the richest 1% of the world’s people, according to a report out Monday from the nonprofit organization Oxfam. In the United States, billionaires are a third richer now than they were before the pandemic." > For example, if you create $10 of wealth, my share of the total wealth goes down, but my wealth is unaffected. Sure. Inflation doesn't exist. Isn't that lovely?
        WalterBright 7mo ago
        > Two-thirds of that has gone to the richest 1% of the world’s people Their wealth was not transferred to them, they created the wealth. > billionaires are a third richer now than they were before the pandemic That gives zero information about the non-billionaires. 66% of the federal budget goes to entitlements (welfare, medicare, social security, etc.). Not to rich people. > Sure. Inflation doesn't exist. Isn't that lovely? Inflation is the result of government deficit spending, not rich people.
woodruffw 7mo ago
It’s the idea, although they’ve chosen a weird location for that: La Marqueta is about 300 feet from a grocery store (City Fresh on East 116th). So this pilot store will effectively compete with private groceries for business, muddying the strength of any results (in any direction). (I say this as someone who is broadly in favor of NYC trying to run city-owned groceries in areas that are underserved.)
halflife 7mo ago
Of course, there is a term called coercive monopoly. It exists especially in large infrastructure projects where the startup cost is tremendous so only government, or a single entity without the possibility of competition can enter. Groceries are not one of these. If you have a problem of high grocery costs, there are many better ways to tackle that other opening a government owned store. But it does make for a great photo op.

WalterBright 7mo ago

[flagged]

ceejayoz 7mo ago
> Maybe they should look into why the closings occurred. Do you think there's no research on the causes of food deserts?
- WalterBright 7mo ago
  Store closings are nearly always the result of them not being profitable.
  - ceejayoz 7mo ago
    Sure. Lots of things governments need to do are unprofitable, like delivering the mail or repairing the roads. I can go to my local public library, borrow the free books, use the free computers, sit in the free chairs, ask the librarian for free guidance, enjoy the free air conditioning, and even book a free meeting room to meet up with some friends to work on a project. Profitable? Fuck no. Great to have in my city? Fuck yes.
    - WalterBright 7mo ago
      Privately run grocery stores have been profitable for 250 years in the US. What has changed recently? Could it be the decriminalization of shoplifting? Or maybe excessive taxes? Or mandates on wages? Vandalism? I forgot to add homeless camping around them, which discourages shoppers.
      - ceejayoz 7mo ago
        > Could it be the decriminalization of shoplifting? Or maybe excessive taxes? Or mandates on wages? Could it be the K-shaped economy? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-08/top-1-earners-hold-more-wealth-than-the-u-s-middle-class https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-08/top-1-ear... "After years of declines, America’s middle class now holds a smaller share of U.S. wealth than the top 1%." "Over the past 30 years, 10 percentage points of American wealth has shifted to the top 20% of earners, who now hold 70% of the total, Fed data show."
        WalterBright 7mo ago
        "Share" of the wealth says nothing about what the amount is. For example, if you create $10 of wealth, my share of the total wealth goes down, but my wealth is unaffected.
        ceejayoz 7mo ago
        https://www.marketplace.org/story/2023/01/16/how-the-worlds-richest-people-became-much-richer-during-the-pandemic https://www.marketplace.org/story/2023/01/16/how-the-worlds-... "About $42 trillion in new wealth was created in the first two years of the pandemic. Two-thirds of that has gone to the richest 1% of the world’s people, according to a report out Monday from the nonprofit organization Oxfam. In the United States, billionaires are a third richer now than they were before the pandemic." > For example, if you create $10 of wealth, my share of the total wealth goes down, but my wealth is unaffected. Sure. Inflation doesn't exist. Isn't that lovely?
        WalterBright 7mo ago
        > Two-thirds of that has gone to the richest 1% of the world’s people Their wealth was not transferred to them, they created the wealth. > billionaires are a third richer now than they were before the pandemic That gives zero information about the non-billionaires. 66% of the federal budget goes to entitlements (welfare, medicare, social security, etc.). Not to rich people. > Sure. Inflation doesn't exist. Isn't that lovely? Inflation is the result of government deficit spending, not rich people.

woodruffw 7mo ago

It’s the idea, although they’ve chosen a weird location for that: La Marqueta is about 300 feet from a grocery store (City Fresh on East 116th). So this pilot store will effectively compete with private groceries for business, muddying the strength of any results (in any direction). (I say this as someone who is broadly in favor of NYC trying to run city-owned groceries in areas that are underserved.)

halflife 7mo ago

Of course, there is a term called coercive monopoly. It exists especially in large infrastructure projects where the startup cost is tremendous so only government, or a single entity without the possibility of competition can enter. Groceries are not one of these. If you have a problem of high grocery costs, there are many better ways to tackle that other opening a government owned store. But it does make for a great photo op.