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Higher education improves society as a whole. It should be paid for from general taxation, and available to all. Humanities subjects are just as valid a topic o

Higher education improves society as a whole. It should be paid for from general taxation, and available to all. Humanities subjects are just as valid a topic of study as STEM. A couple of generations ago these were uncontroversial statements, now most people think you are crazy for suggesting such a thing. I think you can trace a lot of the problems in the western world back to this.

onlyrealcuzzo 6mo ago
Lots of things benefit society and don't cost $40k per year per person in subsidies - mainly to the upper middle class.
- lux-lux-lux 6mo ago
  Strange how I never see this line deployed against the mortgage interest deduction or health care for wealthy retirees, both of which are considerably more expensive. Subsidizing college education, at least, has a reliably positive ROI.
  - triceratops 6mo ago
    Then at the very least college debt should be dischargeable in bankruptcy the way people can walk away from their mortgage.
    - bsder 6mo ago
      Agreed. The idiotic law not allowing college debt to be cleared by bankruptcy is the primary reason why college has gotten so expensive.
      - votepaunchy 6mo ago
        Then treat college debt like any other loan instead of subsidies backstopped with government bailouts.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 6mo ago
    > mortgage interest deduction By far the worst offender. > health care for wealthy retirees Theoretically, they paid into the system to get their dues. > Subsidizing college education, at least, has a reliably positive ROI. There's evidence at the State level, at least in many states, it does not pay for itself.
  - gottorf 6mo ago
    > Strange how I never see this line deployed against the mortgage interest deduction or health care for wealthy retirees For what it's worth, I see arguments like this all the time. Might just be the corner of the information ecosystem you hang out in. > Subsidizing college education, at least, has a reliably positive ROI. Maybe it did in the past, where the greatest marginal gains were. Does it still hold true now? Over a third of the US has a bachelor's degree. Is there a reliably positive ROI to society in taking that third to, say, half?
triceratops 6mo ago
You're both right. College is beneficial to society. And it costs way too much to deliver right now. You could copy-paste these statements to describe American healthcare vs European healthcare and get a very different reaction. Even though it's true for that field too. Why the actual fuck does a humanities degree cost anywhere near as much as an engineering degree? Literally all you need is some professors and a space to teach in. You could run them in co-working spaces, parks (weather permitting), or coffee shops ffs, with no administrative staff or other bloat. (For real: small seminars in a coffee shop or a public park would be dope) Education is beneficial to society and making it cheaper makes it more widely accessible. You and the person you responded to actually agree on a lot.
gottorf 6mo ago
> Higher education improves society as a whole. It should be paid for from general taxation, and available to all > A couple of generations ago these were uncontroversial statements I don't believe those strong assertions you're making were uncontroversial at any time, and are likely objectively less true now than they were in the past.

onlyrealcuzzo 6mo ago

Lots of things benefit society and don't cost $40k per year per person in subsidies - mainly to the upper middle class.

lux-lux-lux 6mo ago
Strange how I never see this line deployed against the mortgage interest deduction or health care for wealthy retirees, both of which are considerably more expensive. Subsidizing college education, at least, has a reliably positive ROI.
- triceratops 6mo ago
  Then at the very least college debt should be dischargeable in bankruptcy the way people can walk away from their mortgage.
  - bsder 6mo ago
    Agreed. The idiotic law not allowing college debt to be cleared by bankruptcy is the primary reason why college has gotten so expensive.
    - votepaunchy 6mo ago
      Then treat college debt like any other loan instead of subsidies backstopped with government bailouts.
- onlyrealcuzzo 6mo ago
  > mortgage interest deduction By far the worst offender. > health care for wealthy retirees Theoretically, they paid into the system to get their dues. > Subsidizing college education, at least, has a reliably positive ROI. There's evidence at the State level, at least in many states, it does not pay for itself.
- gottorf 6mo ago
  > Strange how I never see this line deployed against the mortgage interest deduction or health care for wealthy retirees For what it's worth, I see arguments like this all the time. Might just be the corner of the information ecosystem you hang out in. > Subsidizing college education, at least, has a reliably positive ROI. Maybe it did in the past, where the greatest marginal gains were. Does it still hold true now? Over a third of the US has a bachelor's degree. Is there a reliably positive ROI to society in taking that third to, say, half?

triceratops 6mo ago

You're both right. College is beneficial to society. And it costs way too much to deliver right now. You could copy-paste these statements to describe American healthcare vs European healthcare and get a very different reaction. Even though it's true for that field too. Why the actual fuck does a humanities degree cost anywhere near as much as an engineering degree? Literally all you need is some professors and a space to teach in. You could run them in co-working spaces, parks (weather permitting), or coffee shops ffs, with no administrative staff or other bloat. (For real: small seminars in a coffee shop or a public park would be dope) Education is beneficial to society and making it cheaper makes it more widely accessible. You and the person you responded to actually agree on a lot.

gottorf 6mo ago

> Higher education improves society as a whole. It should be paid for from general taxation, and available to all > A couple of generations ago these were uncontroversial statements I don't believe those strong assertions you're making were uncontroversial at any time, and are likely objectively less true now than they were in the past.