4 ms·

> a AI-free, non-tech trade that won't take too long to get into - think a PA, nurse, plumber, etc. I'm not sure if personal assistant or nurse are going to be

> a AI-free, non-tech trade that won't take too long to get into - think a PA, nurse, plumber, etc. I'm not sure if personal assistant or nurse are going to be AI-free. Plumber, welder, bricklayer, pest exterminator, sure. Don't underestimate the downsides of physical labor, though. Low pay and backbreaking. What writing on the wall? If anything, I think you'll be more needed, not less, in times to come.

tosser12344321 6mo ago
> I think you'll be more needed, not less, in times to come Ya I get the need but you miss the point - no, you can't pay me anymore to wade into that and own risk, beyond a consulting context with low skin in the game. There is a wave of senior leads thinking like this, because the knife's edge of "enough risk to game it for pay" finally tilted too far, and the career has changed. In terms of going home after work and not yelling at my kids and spouse due to work stress due to the 10th 0day in a week on my corporate VPN/my retail-facing app/my..., there's a real QoL issue to consider. Many outside of security consistently misunderstands the mental health/career satisfaction/pay triad.
- operatingthetan 6mo ago
  >Ya I get the need but you miss the point - no, you can't pay me anymore to wade into that and own risk, beyond a consulting context with low skin in the game. In a situation of triage, "owning risk" is off the table.
- chasd00 6mo ago
  > beyond a consulting context "Consulting, if you're not a part of the solution there's money to be made prolonging the problem" - Despair.com :) /i'm a consultant
  - tosser12344321 6mo ago
    The well-paved path into vCISO life
- theturtlemoves 6mo ago
  Fair point, hadn't looked at it that way. (Edit: Word of warning though, my father was a bricklayer and he also screamed at his kids whenever he came home overworked. I'm not saying I know the answer here but every job has its "they don't pay me enough for this shit")
01100011 6mo ago
> Low pay I see you haven't hired a tradesman in the USA lately... Sure, my body would hate me for it, but as a plumber I could make about half what I make as a SWE and given the progressive tax structure and business write-offs I'd probably net a comparable salary.
- theturtlemoves 6mo ago
  Really? Time to move to the USA I guess. Here in Europe it seems to me there's a big gap between minimum wage and high paying jobs. Not much in between (Afterthought: Don't forget the time and cost of retraining. I don't doubt your statement that you'll make just as much but I doubt it'll be right off the bat)
  - quickthrowman 6mo ago
    Union electricians make about $60/hr in my metro area of 3M in the upper Midwest, union plumbers, sheetmetal workers, and pipefitters are all around there or higher. The total pay package is over $100/hr if you include health insurance, vacation, and pension.
    - 01100011 6mo ago
      Plus overtime, which you actually get paid(more) for, unlike being a salaried worker.
- jdlshore 6mo ago
  Self-employment is more expensive than you think. On the positive side, generous IRA limits. In the negative side, health insurance costs. In my experience, that’s what gets ya. Tax differences are fairly minor and not enough to cover the gap.
  - 01100011 6mo ago
    Really? It's been a few years since I was a 1099 contractor but it was pretty good. Write-offs for new computers and equipment, for the home office, for 10% of all utilities... Mileage... Did all that go away?

tosser12344321 6mo ago

> I think you'll be more needed, not less, in times to come Ya I get the need but you miss the point - no, you can't pay me anymore to wade into that and own risk, beyond a consulting context with low skin in the game. There is a wave of senior leads thinking like this, because the knife's edge of "enough risk to game it for pay" finally tilted too far, and the career has changed. In terms of going home after work and not yelling at my kids and spouse due to work stress due to the 10th 0day in a week on my corporate VPN/my retail-facing app/my..., there's a real QoL issue to consider. Many outside of security consistently misunderstands the mental health/career satisfaction/pay triad.

operatingthetan 6mo ago
>Ya I get the need but you miss the point - no, you can't pay me anymore to wade into that and own risk, beyond a consulting context with low skin in the game. In a situation of triage, "owning risk" is off the table.
chasd00 6mo ago
> beyond a consulting context "Consulting, if you're not a part of the solution there's money to be made prolonging the problem" - Despair.com :) /i'm a consultant
- tosser12344321 6mo ago
  The well-paved path into vCISO life
theturtlemoves 6mo ago
Fair point, hadn't looked at it that way. (Edit: Word of warning though, my father was a bricklayer and he also screamed at his kids whenever he came home overworked. I'm not saying I know the answer here but every job has its "they don't pay me enough for this shit")

01100011 6mo ago

> Low pay I see you haven't hired a tradesman in the USA lately... Sure, my body would hate me for it, but as a plumber I could make about half what I make as a SWE and given the progressive tax structure and business write-offs I'd probably net a comparable salary.

theturtlemoves 6mo ago
Really? Time to move to the USA I guess. Here in Europe it seems to me there's a big gap between minimum wage and high paying jobs. Not much in between (Afterthought: Don't forget the time and cost of retraining. I don't doubt your statement that you'll make just as much but I doubt it'll be right off the bat)
- quickthrowman 6mo ago
  Union electricians make about $60/hr in my metro area of 3M in the upper Midwest, union plumbers, sheetmetal workers, and pipefitters are all around there or higher. The total pay package is over $100/hr if you include health insurance, vacation, and pension.
  - 01100011 6mo ago
    Plus overtime, which you actually get paid(more) for, unlike being a salaried worker.
jdlshore 6mo ago
Self-employment is more expensive than you think. On the positive side, generous IRA limits. In the negative side, health insurance costs. In my experience, that’s what gets ya. Tax differences are fairly minor and not enough to cover the gap.
- 01100011 6mo ago
  Really? It's been a few years since I was a 1099 contractor but it was pretty good. Write-offs for new computers and equipment, for the home office, for 10% of all utilities... Mileage... Did all that go away?