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> and it increases electricity costs for the region This doesn't need to be true. It would be both possible and reasonable to mandate subsidy by the datacenter

> and it increases electricity costs for the region This doesn't need to be true. It would be both possible and reasonable to mandate subsidy by the datacenter as part of any deal so that costs don't go up for anyone else.

tombert 6mo ago
Yeah, that's what I've been thinking. If we charged twice as much money per kilowatt-hour for datacenter electricity compared to residential, it feels like the net revenue for electricity could be roughly the same to the power company, but then it wouldn't be nearly as annoying for the residents of the town having their prices spike way up. Or, you know, the AI companies could actually supply their own power like I keep hearing tech bros mention is coming soon.
fhdkweig 6mo ago
Possible and reasonable don't guarantee anything with big businesses. Around 2008, Atlanta had a major drought, and as the local government asked the citizens to conserve water, Coca Cola was bottling up the local water and sending it out on trucks. When the citizens complained, the government said it would cost too many jobs to stop the bottling.
- BugsJustFindMe 6mo ago
  You are engaging with a straw man that is literally the opposite of what I said. I said it would be possible and reasonable to mandate it, not intentionally look the other way, and not cross fingers and hope for beneficence.
  - fhdkweig 6mo ago
    It is the government that mandates things. Even in this article, it was the local council that sold them out.
    - BugsJustFindMe 6mo ago
      > it was the local council that sold them out You're still not engaging with what I said. Please see that "this government chose not to mandate" has zero relevance to whether a government mandate would be possible or reasonable. I said "[datacenters] don't need to [increase electricity costs for others]. It would be possible to mandate...". I said that because the person I was responding to said "a datacenter increases electricity costs for the region". It CAN increase electricity costs for the region. It does not NEED to increase electricity costs for the region. And PREVENTION of increasing electricity costs for the region CAN be done by government mandate instead of hoping for profiteers to do less profiteering. What this particular city council did with this datacenter is neither an inherent property of datacenters nor of city councils.
      - fhdkweig 6mo ago
        > Please see that "there was no government mandate" is not the same as "a government mandate isn't possible". I agree with this, a government mandate is absolutely possible. But I am also saying that they will never choose to do it.
        BugsJustFindMe 6mo ago
        Well, maybe the next one will given that the one that didn't was just fired for it and now there's a lawsuit against the city and the developer.
        tombert 6mo ago
        I wonder if the best way, and something that might be more likely to pass, is something like "progressive pricing". Like the first N kilowatt hours are the regular price, and would cover the average case for most people (I don't know what the average amount of electricity used by a person is but the power companies absolutely know). Then the next M kilowatt hours are an increased price, and keep going as energy spikes up. I think this could work just because this is how income tax works. Somehow that managed to get passed by congress and state legislatures.
        6mo ago

tombert 6mo ago

Yeah, that's what I've been thinking. If we charged twice as much money per kilowatt-hour for datacenter electricity compared to residential, it feels like the net revenue for electricity could be roughly the same to the power company, but then it wouldn't be nearly as annoying for the residents of the town having their prices spike way up. Or, you know, the AI companies could actually supply their own power like I keep hearing tech bros mention is coming soon.

fhdkweig 6mo ago

Possible and reasonable don't guarantee anything with big businesses. Around 2008, Atlanta had a major drought, and as the local government asked the citizens to conserve water, Coca Cola was bottling up the local water and sending it out on trucks. When the citizens complained, the government said it would cost too many jobs to stop the bottling.

BugsJustFindMe 6mo ago
You are engaging with a straw man that is literally the opposite of what I said. I said it would be possible and reasonable to mandate it, not intentionally look the other way, and not cross fingers and hope for beneficence.
- fhdkweig 6mo ago
  It is the government that mandates things. Even in this article, it was the local council that sold them out.
  - BugsJustFindMe 6mo ago
    > it was the local council that sold them out You're still not engaging with what I said. Please see that "this government chose not to mandate" has zero relevance to whether a government mandate would be possible or reasonable. I said "[datacenters] don't need to [increase electricity costs for others]. It would be possible to mandate...". I said that because the person I was responding to said "a datacenter increases electricity costs for the region". It CAN increase electricity costs for the region. It does not NEED to increase electricity costs for the region. And PREVENTION of increasing electricity costs for the region CAN be done by government mandate instead of hoping for profiteers to do less profiteering. What this particular city council did with this datacenter is neither an inherent property of datacenters nor of city councils.
    - fhdkweig 6mo ago
      > Please see that "there was no government mandate" is not the same as "a government mandate isn't possible". I agree with this, a government mandate is absolutely possible. But I am also saying that they will never choose to do it.
      - BugsJustFindMe 6mo ago
        Well, maybe the next one will given that the one that didn't was just fired for it and now there's a lawsuit against the city and the developer.
      - tombert 6mo ago
        I wonder if the best way, and something that might be more likely to pass, is something like "progressive pricing". Like the first N kilowatt hours are the regular price, and would cover the average case for most people (I don't know what the average amount of electricity used by a person is but the power companies absolutely know). Then the next M kilowatt hours are an increased price, and keep going as energy spikes up. I think this could work just because this is how income tax works. Somehow that managed to get passed by congress and state legislatures.
      - 6mo ago