4 ms·

> The right to opt out of its sale, and Why the right to opt-out, instead of requiring sale of data to be opt-in? I’m not sure how this stuff happens on the b

> The right to opt out of its sale, and Why the right to opt-out, instead of requiring sale of data to be opt-in? I’m not sure how this stuff happens on the backend, but if I sign up for something and there is an opt-out page buried somewhere, I assume they’ve already sold my data by the time I can get to the opt-out page. I still make a best effort, but once it’s sold, it’s really too late. There needs to be an option to never sell it in the first place.

noir_lord 7mo ago
This annoys me with Apple devices, iCloud and all it's related backups of..well everything are on by default and it doesn't ask at any point in the setup of the device. You have to then go into settings -> icloud and disable the main one and then like 30 individual ones. There should be a big toggle at the top that says "Disable All Cloud Backups" they can feel free to throw in a warning.
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
- al_borland 7mo ago
  The phone backup is one toggle. The 30 individual ones are for syncing data for apps. If you aren’t using iCloud for any of this, why use it at all? I believe you can still use an iPhone without an iCloud account, can’t you? Without any cloud sync, I’m not sure what the value is, just sign out. I’m sure you’d lose the ability to download apps, but most of those are also using iCloud to sync data. For what it’s worth, Apple seems fairly decent about not opting users in to new stuff. When they released Messages syncing via iCloud, I had to explicitly turn it on for my various devices. The same was true for several other things.
  - noir_lord 7mo ago
    > If you aren’t using iCloud for any of this, why use it at all? I believe you can still use an iPhone without an iCloud account, can’t you? Nope, You have to have an apple account tied to a physical phone number or you can't sign in on the device or use it at all and they opt you in to the 5GB free plan and yes, the 30 sliders is apps but that doesn't alter the fact that I want to be asked before they exfiltrate my data, technology should exist to serve the user and part of that (at least in my opinion) is respecting privacy. Yes you can sign out and you can untoggle the boxes but that is rather my point, it's opt out not opt in. I don't want default exfiltration of data from my devices to a faceless American corporation without that been my choice.
    - snazz 7mo ago
      [dead]
    - ramgine 7mo ago
      I daily my work MacBook without an Apple account or phone number. And no, it’s not in ABM, or any other MDE. App Store is unavailable because of the missing account, but it does not prevent me from using the device like you’re claiming.
      - toast0 7mo ago
        An iPhone with no apps is pretty hard to use. A mac doesn't need the app store, but when I last set one up, I needed to install the devtools from the appstore to bootstrap macports or whatever, so that pushed me into an account.
- gitpusher 7mo ago
  I don't disagree. But defaults are important, and you are in a tiny minority with wanting to disable iCloud. 90% of people using Apple phones want or expect things to be magically backed up for them
  - noir_lord 7mo ago
    Not saying they shouldn't have that, Apple feels it necessary to ask if I want Siri, if I want a Dark theme and if I want to give them payment details during device setup, I feel like "Do you also want us to back all your data up to a remote computer" could be on that list.
- dml2135 7mo ago
  This is just... not true? I'm curious what you mean, because iCloud cannot be on by default since it requires you to set up an iCloud account. You're asked to sign into iCloud during device setup, which you can decline. Do you mean that, after consenting to and signing into iCloud, all of iCloud's feature are enabled by default?
trollbridge 7mo ago
Microsoft likes to do the "opt out for the next 30 days", including uploading all my spreadsheets to Copilot to be training data.
- colejohnson66 7mo ago
  "Can we do X, Y, Z?" Yes? Or maybe later? It's so annoying. No means no, not "pester me later"!
  - bombcar 7mo ago
    Consent used to be "Yes" or "No" now it's "Yes" or "I'll give in later"
    - salawat 7mo ago
      There's a reason the tech industry is said to be rapey. Such fundamental misunderstandings of consent likely do not ultimately stop at the digital.
      - mghackerlady 7mo ago
        Woman in tech (rare here, I know) and I can confirm, they don't stop at digital
    - deleted 7mo ago
      [deleted]
- al_borland 7mo ago
  That would be enough to get me to spend those 30 days migrating all my spreadsheets to a new format.
  - trollbridge 7mo ago
    Google Sheets is slower/has enough usability issues it's not an option and OpenOffice is missing a few features too, not to mention neither really can do VBA at all, nor do they have PowerQuery. So Excel it is.

noir_lord 7mo ago

This annoys me with Apple devices, iCloud and all it's related backups of..well everything are on by default and it doesn't ask at any point in the setup of the device. You have to then go into settings -> icloud and disable the main one and then like 30 individual ones. There should be a big toggle at the top that says "Disable All Cloud Backups" they can feel free to throw in a warning.

deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]
al_borland 7mo ago
The phone backup is one toggle. The 30 individual ones are for syncing data for apps. If you aren’t using iCloud for any of this, why use it at all? I believe you can still use an iPhone without an iCloud account, can’t you? Without any cloud sync, I’m not sure what the value is, just sign out. I’m sure you’d lose the ability to download apps, but most of those are also using iCloud to sync data. For what it’s worth, Apple seems fairly decent about not opting users in to new stuff. When they released Messages syncing via iCloud, I had to explicitly turn it on for my various devices. The same was true for several other things.
- noir_lord 7mo ago
  > If you aren’t using iCloud for any of this, why use it at all? I believe you can still use an iPhone without an iCloud account, can’t you? Nope, You have to have an apple account tied to a physical phone number or you can't sign in on the device or use it at all and they opt you in to the 5GB free plan and yes, the 30 sliders is apps but that doesn't alter the fact that I want to be asked before they exfiltrate my data, technology should exist to serve the user and part of that (at least in my opinion) is respecting privacy. Yes you can sign out and you can untoggle the boxes but that is rather my point, it's opt out not opt in. I don't want default exfiltration of data from my devices to a faceless American corporation without that been my choice.
  - snazz 7mo ago
    [dead]
  - ramgine 7mo ago
    I daily my work MacBook without an Apple account or phone number. And no, it’s not in ABM, or any other MDE. App Store is unavailable because of the missing account, but it does not prevent me from using the device like you’re claiming.
    - toast0 7mo ago
      An iPhone with no apps is pretty hard to use. A mac doesn't need the app store, but when I last set one up, I needed to install the devtools from the appstore to bootstrap macports or whatever, so that pushed me into an account.
gitpusher 7mo ago
I don't disagree. But defaults are important, and you are in a tiny minority with wanting to disable iCloud. 90% of people using Apple phones want or expect things to be magically backed up for them
- noir_lord 7mo ago
  Not saying they shouldn't have that, Apple feels it necessary to ask if I want Siri, if I want a Dark theme and if I want to give them payment details during device setup, I feel like "Do you also want us to back all your data up to a remote computer" could be on that list.
dml2135 7mo ago
This is just... not true? I'm curious what you mean, because iCloud cannot be on by default since it requires you to set up an iCloud account. You're asked to sign into iCloud during device setup, which you can decline. Do you mean that, after consenting to and signing into iCloud, all of iCloud's feature are enabled by default?

trollbridge 7mo ago

Microsoft likes to do the "opt out for the next 30 days", including uploading all my spreadsheets to Copilot to be training data.

colejohnson66 7mo ago
"Can we do X, Y, Z?" Yes? Or maybe later? It's so annoying. No means no, not "pester me later"!
- bombcar 7mo ago
  Consent used to be "Yes" or "No" now it's "Yes" or "I'll give in later"
  - salawat 7mo ago
    There's a reason the tech industry is said to be rapey. Such fundamental misunderstandings of consent likely do not ultimately stop at the digital.
    - mghackerlady 7mo ago
      Woman in tech (rare here, I know) and I can confirm, they don't stop at digital
  - deleted 7mo ago
    [deleted]
al_borland 7mo ago
That would be enough to get me to spend those 30 days migrating all my spreadsheets to a new format.
- trollbridge 7mo ago
  Google Sheets is slower/has enough usability issues it's not an option and OpenOffice is missing a few features too, not to mention neither really can do VBA at all, nor do they have PowerQuery. So Excel it is.