3 ms·

A good opportunity to consult wikipedia once again (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(operating_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(operating_syst

by Rochus 6mo ago

A good opportunity to consult wikipedia once again (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(operating_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(operating_system)), or to ask your trusted LLM.

loneboat 6mo ago
Pasting a Wikipedia link or saying "just ask an LLM" only helps out the one instance of someone not knowing. I did the same thing as the OP you're replying to. They're right - a brief summary in the readme would be a near zero-effort permanent fix to people who stumble on your project and dont know what Oberon is.
- luismedel 6mo ago
  Honest question. Where does one stop clarifying things?
  - wk_end 6mo ago
    One of the basic principles of communication is that you have a mental model of the person you're communicating with and are phrasing what you want them to understand in terms that you think they'll understand. So whenever you're writing something - anything - you should be writing with a target audience in mind, and stop explaining right around the point where you believe that your target audience doesn't need further explanation. Of course it's normal for there to be a disconnect between your assumptions about your target audience and reality. In a real conversation this happens all the time and it's no big deal. When something's written and especially when it's printed it can be a bit more of a problem, so maybe better to err on the side of over-explaining. Also a good reason to have editors and proofreaders. But I'm rambling a bit. In this case, the link was posted to HN by the author, so the author might have had "average HN reader" in mind. Oberon never really achieved success outside of a particular niche in academia, so unless they went to ETH Zurich I personally wouldn't expect someone - even someone in tech - to know about it.
    - luismedel 6mo ago
      Exactly. I knew what the link was about and didn't study at ETH Zurich. I (mistakenly?) think Oberon is that kind of "roots knowledge" shared between all of us, like Lisp or Forth. That's why I asked when one should stop clarifying things. Maybe some people need to know what a compiler os, or a VM, or a windowing system, or ...whatever. What I mean is that having so much info at the toe of our tips, comments like "you should put a link about what this thing is" are needless.
      - swiftcoder 6mo ago
        The problem with this is that there are so many branches of tech from 40 years ago that any one person is unlikely to be familiar with all of them. I'm plenty familiar with the whole Modula 3 -> NextSTEP branch of this little tree, but the Oberon branch isn't something I've run into before.
      - wk_end 6mo ago
        > I (mistakenly?) think Oberon is that kind of "roots knowledge" shared between all of us, like Lisp or Forth. Yes, I think that's a mistake. Lisp and Forth saw widespread commercial use, were hugely influential, and directly begat many other languages. While I'd expect most folks on here to be familiar with Pascal - you could say those same things about it - and maybe even know who Wirth is, Oberon basically saw no commercial use whatsoever and even in academia was basically only used at the school it came from. There's no real comparison.
      - fhars 6mo ago
        Yes, you are likely confusing Oberon with Pascal. That is the Wirth language people usually have heard about. They may also have heard about Modula 2, but assuming that is stretching it. I was already interested in computers at the time, but I still only remember Oberon as that even bigger failure than Modula.
    - nothinkjustai 6mo ago
      Sorry, can you explain what ETH Zurich is? I’m not familiar with that term.
- Rochus 6mo ago
  Thinking independently and learning strategies to find their own way are among the most important foundations for anyone interested in technology or who wants to work in the field. If people are curious enough about a keyword or topic, they should also be willing to put in some effort to research it. Or, if that really isn’t possible, they should ask good questions. That’s generally much more promising than confronting the author of a post with accusations right off the bat.
- benj111 6mo ago
  So to explain what an apple pie is, first you must explain the universe? Every time?

by Rochus 6mo ago

A good opportunity to consult wikipedia once again (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(operating_system) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_(operating_system)), or to ask your trusted LLM.

loneboat 6mo ago

Pasting a Wikipedia link or saying "just ask an LLM" only helps out the one instance of someone not knowing. I did the same thing as the OP you're replying to. They're right - a brief summary in the readme would be a near zero-effort permanent fix to people who stumble on your project and dont know what Oberon is.

luismedel 6mo ago
Honest question. Where does one stop clarifying things?
- wk_end 6mo ago
  One of the basic principles of communication is that you have a mental model of the person you're communicating with and are phrasing what you want them to understand in terms that you think they'll understand. So whenever you're writing something - anything - you should be writing with a target audience in mind, and stop explaining right around the point where you believe that your target audience doesn't need further explanation. Of course it's normal for there to be a disconnect between your assumptions about your target audience and reality. In a real conversation this happens all the time and it's no big deal. When something's written and especially when it's printed it can be a bit more of a problem, so maybe better to err on the side of over-explaining. Also a good reason to have editors and proofreaders. But I'm rambling a bit. In this case, the link was posted to HN by the author, so the author might have had "average HN reader" in mind. Oberon never really achieved success outside of a particular niche in academia, so unless they went to ETH Zurich I personally wouldn't expect someone - even someone in tech - to know about it.
  - luismedel 6mo ago
    Exactly. I knew what the link was about and didn't study at ETH Zurich. I (mistakenly?) think Oberon is that kind of "roots knowledge" shared between all of us, like Lisp or Forth. That's why I asked when one should stop clarifying things. Maybe some people need to know what a compiler os, or a VM, or a windowing system, or ...whatever. What I mean is that having so much info at the toe of our tips, comments like "you should put a link about what this thing is" are needless.
    - swiftcoder 6mo ago
      The problem with this is that there are so many branches of tech from 40 years ago that any one person is unlikely to be familiar with all of them. I'm plenty familiar with the whole Modula 3 -> NextSTEP branch of this little tree, but the Oberon branch isn't something I've run into before.
    - wk_end 6mo ago
      > I (mistakenly?) think Oberon is that kind of "roots knowledge" shared between all of us, like Lisp or Forth. Yes, I think that's a mistake. Lisp and Forth saw widespread commercial use, were hugely influential, and directly begat many other languages. While I'd expect most folks on here to be familiar with Pascal - you could say those same things about it - and maybe even know who Wirth is, Oberon basically saw no commercial use whatsoever and even in academia was basically only used at the school it came from. There's no real comparison.
    - fhars 6mo ago
      Yes, you are likely confusing Oberon with Pascal. That is the Wirth language people usually have heard about. They may also have heard about Modula 2, but assuming that is stretching it. I was already interested in computers at the time, but I still only remember Oberon as that even bigger failure than Modula.
  - nothinkjustai 6mo ago
    Sorry, can you explain what ETH Zurich is? I’m not familiar with that term.
Rochus 6mo ago
Thinking independently and learning strategies to find their own way are among the most important foundations for anyone interested in technology or who wants to work in the field. If people are curious enough about a keyword or topic, they should also be willing to put in some effort to research it. Or, if that really isn’t possible, they should ask good questions. That’s generally much more promising than confronting the author of a post with accusations right off the bat.
benj111 6mo ago
So to explain what an apple pie is, first you must explain the universe? Every time?