4 ms·

Hungary's Viktor Orbán Concedes Defeat in Election

73 points by JumpCrisscross 7mo ago

iammjm 7mo ago
Big win for democracy. Not even 16 years of Orban and russian-, trumpian-, and technofascist interference could kill it. quite amazing actually
- harladsinsteden 7mo ago
  It almost makes you think there is still some good left in the world.
- stefs 7mo ago
  yes - i am so relieved. this was a real conundrum for the EU - booting hungary out would have been a huge problem (i.e. opening the door for a russian stronghold right in its mid), but keeping orban in would mean the a) abuse continued and b) it would send a signal to others that this is a winning strategy. democracy may suffer from the problem that it allows the election of anti-democratic autocrats but it seems that it's definitely able to come back from the brink, even if the deck's stacked against it. i wonder what message it sends to the other countries.
- kakacik 7mo ago
  Certainly an excellent news. What puzzles me that he managed to stay in power for 4 periods, despite behaving very consistently - subverting EU, de facto being russian spy, stealing EU dotations, led Hungary to stagnation. Yet people kept voting him in. Exactly same story as just north from it, Fico in Slovakia is a tragedy for that nation and he keeps winning the votes. So great news, for now.
  - me_me_me 7mo ago
    [dead]
- Markoff 7mo ago
  Are you aware that Magyar was with Orban until 2024, right? It's funny how some people think he is some amazing change...
biesnecker 7mo ago
Good riddance.
- hsyehbeidhh 7mo ago
  [dead]
pessimizer 7mo ago
Not much of a dictatorship if the dictator concedes defeat after an election that was possible for him to lose.
- EGreg 7mo ago
  True, it's not so much a dictatorship, more like just a certain type of mindset. Shared by Trump, Vance (I guess), Elon, and the AfD party, Le Pen (maybe) and more. What do we call this mindset? Right wing authoritarianism? Anti-immigrant sentiment? Poland next door to Hungary is also very anti-immigrant and proud of it (everyone from Duda onwards).
  - matusp 7mo ago
    Illiberal democracy
- stefs 7mo ago
  His options were limited. Aside from his tirades against the EU, he was completely dependent on it, as it financed half the country – Hungary was the largest per capita recipient of EU funds. This was also the reason why he never seriously attempted to leave the Union. He could now take certain steps, such as eliminating press freedom, but election fraud on the scale that would have been necessary to skew this election would have led to sanctions.
oulipo2 7mo ago
Good news, now let's rid the rest of Europe and the world of fascists and authoritarians
shevy-java 7mo ago
The results were quite clear. About 2/3 voted someone else, roughly. I think this was also the primary reason why Orban congratulated quickly.
kolinko 7mo ago
"ally of President Trump" -- more like an ally of Putin?
- highpost 7mo ago
  you can be both.
- kakacik 7mo ago
  Both. Both are allies too. Are you not watching the news for past decade? Also, DJ vance was lobbing for him righr before elections in some local gatherings during his visot few days ago. So much for not interfering.
- layer8 7mo ago
  One doesn’t exclude the other.
  - me_me_me 7mo ago
    [dead]
cantalopes 7mo ago
Hell yes
- hsyehbeidhh 7mo ago
  [dead]
ChrisArchitect 7mo ago
Earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47743553 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47743553
jauntywundrkind 7mo ago
Also a right wing former insider of the regime, but one that seemingly is turning has back on the regime authoritarianism & exploitation that has characterized the right's ascent worldwide. At least has shown some backbone, respect, decency, & is tired of the world burners, that believe in their vicious nasty strongmen, who seem intent only on grifting, tearing things down, and inflaming tensions. Amazingly frank talk from Peter: https://telex.hu/belfold/2024/02/10/magyar-peter-varga-judit-volt-ferje-lemondas-ner-rogan-antal https://telex.hu/belfold/2024/02/10/magyar-peter-varga-judit... I really appreciate this comedic take from Bluesky: > analogy for the America brained is like if the Dems lost to Trump four times in a row and then ran Mitt Romney to save the country and won crazy supermajorities and also Mitt Romney was named Johnny America https://bsky.app/profile/michaelcaley.bsky.social/post/3mjd2xwhtak2a https://bsky.app/profile/michaelcaley.bsky.social/post/3mjd2...
- jfengel 7mo ago
  Mitt Romney was OK. So was John McCain. Both of Obama's opponents were pretty decent guys. I disagreed with them, but they weren't actively trying to destroy the country. And arguably, that's why they lost. When Republicans run somebody on a platform of being actively hostile, they win. It took a global pandemic to upset that pattern. The moderates will vote red no matter who, but the extremists will come out in droves if you pander to them. So... if it's really Mitt Romney running Hungary, I'm just fine with that. Sadly, I fear the analogy breaks down, and that Magyar might be less intelligent and thoughtful than Romney. I hope I'm wrong about that.
tetrisgm 7mo ago
Congratulations! Also excellent future for the EU and Ukraine
Scipio_Afri 7mo ago
Why is this and all other posts about this flagged?
- jacquesm 7mo ago
  HN has a large enough MAGA contingent that believes by not talking about it the world will hold off a little longer from bringing down their idol. What happened to Orban could and should happen to Trump. But America is only in year 6 of seeing someone wreck their country, Orban was in year 16. So presumably they still have a bit further to go down before they kick out their Russian stooges. Mods have the power to unflag these but don't, usually because they don't see these threads (though, if they really wanted to they could view the 'active' page). It's interesting to see what you can and can not talk about on HN, local US politics (esp. California) is fine, global possibly world changing things are not.
  - nathanaldensr 7mo ago
    > HN has a large enough MAGA contingent that believes by not talking about it the world will hold off a little longer from bringing down their idol. No. You're projecting. You're one of those types that sees politics in everything--that wants politics in everything. Some of us, me included, flag political stories not because of our beliefs but because we'd rather HN not become Reddit, or the countless other spaces that have been perniciously and intentionally invaded by "always politics, all the time" people.
    - jacquesm 7mo ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_lady_doth_protest_too_much,_methinks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_lady_doth_protest_too_much...
- Malcx 7mo ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.

Big win for democracy. Not even 16 years of Orban and russian-, trumpian-, and technofascist interference could kill it. quite amazing actually

harladsinsteden 7mo ago
It almost makes you think there is still some good left in the world.
stefs 7mo ago
yes - i am so relieved. this was a real conundrum for the EU - booting hungary out would have been a huge problem (i.e. opening the door for a russian stronghold right in its mid), but keeping orban in would mean the a) abuse continued and b) it would send a signal to others that this is a winning strategy. democracy may suffer from the problem that it allows the election of anti-democratic autocrats but it seems that it's definitely able to come back from the brink, even if the deck's stacked against it. i wonder what message it sends to the other countries.
kakacik 7mo ago
Certainly an excellent news. What puzzles me that he managed to stay in power for 4 periods, despite behaving very consistently - subverting EU, de facto being russian spy, stealing EU dotations, led Hungary to stagnation. Yet people kept voting him in. Exactly same story as just north from it, Fico in Slovakia is a tragedy for that nation and he keeps winning the votes. So great news, for now.
- me_me_me 7mo ago
  [dead]
Markoff 7mo ago
Are you aware that Magyar was with Orban until 2024, right? It's funny how some people think he is some amazing change...

biesnecker 7mo ago

Good riddance.

hsyehbeidhh 7mo ago
[dead]

pessimizer 7mo ago

Not much of a dictatorship if the dictator concedes defeat after an election that was possible for him to lose.

EGreg 7mo ago
True, it's not so much a dictatorship, more like just a certain type of mindset. Shared by Trump, Vance (I guess), Elon, and the AfD party, Le Pen (maybe) and more. What do we call this mindset? Right wing authoritarianism? Anti-immigrant sentiment? Poland next door to Hungary is also very anti-immigrant and proud of it (everyone from Duda onwards).
- matusp 7mo ago
  Illiberal democracy
stefs 7mo ago
His options were limited. Aside from his tirades against the EU, he was completely dependent on it, as it financed half the country – Hungary was the largest per capita recipient of EU funds. This was also the reason why he never seriously attempted to leave the Union. He could now take certain steps, such as eliminating press freedom, but election fraud on the scale that would have been necessary to skew this election would have led to sanctions.

oulipo2 7mo ago

Good news, now let's rid the rest of Europe and the world of fascists and authoritarians

shevy-java 7mo ago

The results were quite clear. About 2/3 voted someone else, roughly. I think this was also the primary reason why Orban congratulated quickly.

kolinko 7mo ago

"ally of President Trump" -- more like an ally of Putin?

highpost 7mo ago
you can be both.
kakacik 7mo ago
Both. Both are allies too. Are you not watching the news for past decade? Also, DJ vance was lobbing for him righr before elections in some local gatherings during his visot few days ago. So much for not interfering.
layer8 7mo ago
One doesn’t exclude the other.
- me_me_me 7mo ago
  [dead]

cantalopes 7mo ago

Hell yes

hsyehbeidhh 7mo ago
[dead]

ChrisArchitect 7mo ago

Earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47743553 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47743553

jauntywundrkind 7mo ago

Also a right wing former insider of the regime, but one that seemingly is turning has back on the regime authoritarianism & exploitation that has characterized the right's ascent worldwide. At least has shown some backbone, respect, decency, & is tired of the world burners, that believe in their vicious nasty strongmen, who seem intent only on grifting, tearing things down, and inflaming tensions. Amazingly frank talk from Peter: https://telex.hu/belfold/2024/02/10/magyar-peter-varga-judit-volt-ferje-lemondas-ner-rogan-antal https://telex.hu/belfold/2024/02/10/magyar-peter-varga-judit... I really appreciate this comedic take from Bluesky: > analogy for the America brained is like if the Dems lost to Trump four times in a row and then ran Mitt Romney to save the country and won crazy supermajorities and also Mitt Romney was named Johnny America https://bsky.app/profile/michaelcaley.bsky.social/post/3mjd2xwhtak2a https://bsky.app/profile/michaelcaley.bsky.social/post/3mjd2...

jfengel 7mo ago
Mitt Romney was OK. So was John McCain. Both of Obama's opponents were pretty decent guys. I disagreed with them, but they weren't actively trying to destroy the country. And arguably, that's why they lost. When Republicans run somebody on a platform of being actively hostile, they win. It took a global pandemic to upset that pattern. The moderates will vote red no matter who, but the extremists will come out in droves if you pander to them. So... if it's really Mitt Romney running Hungary, I'm just fine with that. Sadly, I fear the analogy breaks down, and that Magyar might be less intelligent and thoughtful than Romney. I hope I'm wrong about that.

tetrisgm 7mo ago

Congratulations! Also excellent future for the EU and Ukraine

Scipio_Afri 7mo ago

Why is this and all other posts about this flagged?

jacquesm 7mo ago
HN has a large enough MAGA contingent that believes by not talking about it the world will hold off a little longer from bringing down their idol. What happened to Orban could and should happen to Trump. But America is only in year 6 of seeing someone wreck their country, Orban was in year 16. So presumably they still have a bit further to go down before they kick out their Russian stooges. Mods have the power to unflag these but don't, usually because they don't see these threads (though, if they really wanted to they could view the 'active' page). It's interesting to see what you can and can not talk about on HN, local US politics (esp. California) is fine, global possibly world changing things are not.
- nathanaldensr 7mo ago
  > HN has a large enough MAGA contingent that believes by not talking about it the world will hold off a little longer from bringing down their idol. No. You're projecting. You're one of those types that sees politics in everything--that wants politics in everything. Some of us, me included, flag political stories not because of our beliefs but because we'd rather HN not become Reddit, or the countless other spaces that have been perniciously and intentionally invaded by "always politics, all the time" people.
  - jacquesm 7mo ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_lady_doth_protest_too_much,_methinks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_lady_doth_protest_too_much...
Malcx 7mo ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.