5 ms·

Ah, good old Apple, where for only $9.99 a month, you can experience what Linux offered for free 15+ years ago.

by amarant 6mo ago

cosmic_cheese 6mo ago
Not really true if what you want is a full macOS-style desktop experience with a few choice features from elsewhere bolted on. Linux desktops are predominantly Windows-style or minimal tiling thing, with the exceptions (GNOME, Pantheon) bearing only surface-level Mac aesthetics and being more comparable to superpowered tablet OS experiences.
- gunapologist99 6mo ago
  MacOS is neutered for any advanced or even power user compared to practically any Linux desktop experience. Trying to just resize or remove a window should convince you of that instantly.
  - oneplane 6mo ago
    That statement makes no sense. X11 works fine on macOS and running it in rootful mode with Gnome essentially works the same way it would work on an OS that uses the Linux kernel. Granted, it will not integrate with anything hardware-wise by itself (unless there's a package for it - if not, macOS still handles it, and Aqua/Quartz will keep running in the background anyway), but if what you wanted was something that is KDE or GNOME running with its own WM on its own X11 server, doing the exact same thing you'd get if you're running a Linux distro, that's been natively possible for over 15 years. If a power user loses their power based on what GUI happens to be in front of them, how much of a power user was the power user to begin with?
    - 71bw 6mo ago
      There is a major difference between losing your power and having to constantly fight the UI to keep your power. And, for example, window management on Mac is clunky as all hell.
      - oneplane 6mo ago
        Which is why I wrote about running the exact UI that was referenced, with the same window server, window manager and desktop environment.
  - cosmic_cheese 6mo ago
    It's just a matter of what one is used to. As someone who's used macOS since before OS X was released (alongside Windows and Linux), moving and resizing windows rarely poses issues.
- amarant 6mo ago
  Can you expand a bit on what you mean by "Superpowered tablet os"? I'm tend to think of it as a server os with a DE, but as a backend developer I'm probably biased.
  - cosmic_cheese 6mo ago
    I'm talking about the desktop environment explicitly, not the underlying OS. To me, GNOME and Pantheon (elementaryOS DE) strongly resemble e.g. iPadOS or Android running on a tablet for a few reasons: - Chunky heavily padded touch-optimized UI elements (even when no touch capability is present) - By default, minimize button not present in titlebars - Near total abandonment of menubars in favor of mobile-style "hamburger" menus - By default, no desktop icons (not even an app grid!) - Simplistic ecosystem apps with mobile-like philosophy of eschewing functionality that doesn't fit in toolbars and hamburger menus - Little to no presence of progressive disclosure (enabling power user functions to be present without falling in the path of novices and tripping them up) - Limited extensibility and scriptability (more so than macOS in some ways), with what exists (GNOME extensions) being fragile and breaking constantly due to needing to monkeypatch UI code While it's not my cup of tea, KDE and even less trendy DEs like XFCE do a better job at acting like an actual desktop environment and surfacing the capabilities of the system.
    - amarant 6mo ago
      Ah. Well then I'll argue my original statement holds. Op himself likened his product to gnome 2. Gnome 3 was released 15 years ago so if anything I was generous in my original comment.
    - Kerrick 6mo ago
      > By default, minimize button not present in titlebars This is explained by the ElementaryOS H.I.G.: > Apps should save their current state when closed so they can be reopened right to where the user left off. Typically, closing and reopening an app should be indistinguishable from the legacy concept of minimizing and unminimizing an app; that is, all elements should be saved including open documents, scroll position, undo history, etc. > Because of the strong convention of saved state, elementary OS does not expose or optimize for legacy minimize behavior; e.g. there is no minimize button, and the Multitasking View does not distinguish minimized windows. More: https://docs.elementary.io/hig/user-workflow/closing https://docs.elementary.io/hig/user-workflow/closing
- dismalaf 6mo ago
  Gnome is a pretty big exception lol. Considering it's the dominant DE. Also tablet OS? Gnome is keyboard driven with tiling features OOTB...
  - cosmic_cheese 6mo ago
    See my answer to the other comment[0]. Being keyboard-driven is nice but doesn't make up for these things, and these days macOS comes with Aero-Snap-like tiling built in too. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47743939 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47743939
jazzyjackson 6mo ago
as long as we're quipping, free software is free so long as you don't value your time
- bigyabai 6mo ago
  It takes me longer to login to PayPal than it takes to install Dash-to-Panel: https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/1160/dash-to-panel/ https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/1160/dash-to-panel/ Maybe that's just what $10 worth of labor looks like in today's economy, though. Times are tough.
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
trymas 6mo ago
Ah, good old Linux, where for free, you cannot experience what macOS offers since 1984. /s of course. Just pointing out that your comment is just to flame.

Ah, good old Apple, where for only $9.99 a month, you can experience what Linux offered for free 15+ years ago.

by amarant 6mo ago

Ah, good old Apple, where for only $9.99 a month, you can experience what Linux offered for free 15+ years ago.

Not really true if what you want is a full macOS-style desktop experience with a few choice features from elsewhere bolted on. Linux desktops are predominantly Windows-style or minimal tiling thing, with the exceptions (GNOME, Pantheon) bearing only surface-level Mac aesthetics and being more comparable to superpowered tablet OS experiences.

gunapologist99 6mo ago
MacOS is neutered for any advanced or even power user compared to practically any Linux desktop experience. Trying to just resize or remove a window should convince you of that instantly.
- oneplane 6mo ago
  That statement makes no sense. X11 works fine on macOS and running it in rootful mode with Gnome essentially works the same way it would work on an OS that uses the Linux kernel. Granted, it will not integrate with anything hardware-wise by itself (unless there's a package for it - if not, macOS still handles it, and Aqua/Quartz will keep running in the background anyway), but if what you wanted was something that is KDE or GNOME running with its own WM on its own X11 server, doing the exact same thing you'd get if you're running a Linux distro, that's been natively possible for over 15 years. If a power user loses their power based on what GUI happens to be in front of them, how much of a power user was the power user to begin with?
  - 71bw 6mo ago
    There is a major difference between losing your power and having to constantly fight the UI to keep your power. And, for example, window management on Mac is clunky as all hell.
    - oneplane 6mo ago
      Which is why I wrote about running the exact UI that was referenced, with the same window server, window manager and desktop environment.
- cosmic_cheese 6mo ago
  It's just a matter of what one is used to. As someone who's used macOS since before OS X was released (alongside Windows and Linux), moving and resizing windows rarely poses issues.
amarant 6mo ago
Can you expand a bit on what you mean by "Superpowered tablet os"? I'm tend to think of it as a server os with a DE, but as a backend developer I'm probably biased.
- cosmic_cheese 6mo ago
  I'm talking about the desktop environment explicitly, not the underlying OS. To me, GNOME and Pantheon (elementaryOS DE) strongly resemble e.g. iPadOS or Android running on a tablet for a few reasons: - Chunky heavily padded touch-optimized UI elements (even when no touch capability is present) - By default, minimize button not present in titlebars - Near total abandonment of menubars in favor of mobile-style "hamburger" menus - By default, no desktop icons (not even an app grid!) - Simplistic ecosystem apps with mobile-like philosophy of eschewing functionality that doesn't fit in toolbars and hamburger menus - Little to no presence of progressive disclosure (enabling power user functions to be present without falling in the path of novices and tripping them up) - Limited extensibility and scriptability (more so than macOS in some ways), with what exists (GNOME extensions) being fragile and breaking constantly due to needing to monkeypatch UI code While it's not my cup of tea, KDE and even less trendy DEs like XFCE do a better job at acting like an actual desktop environment and surfacing the capabilities of the system.
  - amarant 6mo ago
    Ah. Well then I'll argue my original statement holds. Op himself likened his product to gnome 2. Gnome 3 was released 15 years ago so if anything I was generous in my original comment.
  - Kerrick 6mo ago
    > By default, minimize button not present in titlebars This is explained by the ElementaryOS H.I.G.: > Apps should save their current state when closed so they can be reopened right to where the user left off. Typically, closing and reopening an app should be indistinguishable from the legacy concept of minimizing and unminimizing an app; that is, all elements should be saved including open documents, scroll position, undo history, etc. > Because of the strong convention of saved state, elementary OS does not expose or optimize for legacy minimize behavior; e.g. there is no minimize button, and the Multitasking View does not distinguish minimized windows. More: https://docs.elementary.io/hig/user-workflow/closing https://docs.elementary.io/hig/user-workflow/closing
dismalaf 6mo ago
Gnome is a pretty big exception lol. Considering it's the dominant DE. Also tablet OS? Gnome is keyboard driven with tiling features OOTB...
- cosmic_cheese 6mo ago
  See my answer to the other comment[0]. Being keyboard-driven is nice but doesn't make up for these things, and these days macOS comes with Aero-Snap-like tiling built in too. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47743939 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47743939

jazzyjackson 6mo ago

as long as we're quipping, free software is free so long as you don't value your time

bigyabai 6mo ago
It takes me longer to login to PayPal than it takes to install Dash-to-Panel: https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/1160/dash-to-panel/ https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/1160/dash-to-panel/ Maybe that's just what $10 worth of labor looks like in today's economy, though. Times are tough.

deleted 6mo ago

[deleted]

trymas 6mo ago

Ah, good old Linux, where for free, you cannot experience what macOS offers since 1984. /s of course. Just pointing out that your comment is just to flame.