4 ms·

European here, so I can only judge this from afar, but "Autopen" wasn't even an option anymore. And by now, honestly, Harris looks like she'd have been the WAY

by xg15 7mo ago

European here, so I can only judge this from afar, but "Autopen" wasn't even an option anymore. And by now, honestly, Harris looks like she'd have been the WAY saner option. (And, the US being the US, the choice of the President has direct consequences for the rest of the world - so from the PoV of European interests, Harris would definitely have been the better choice) But yeah, the underlying problem seems to be the electoral system and the general undermining of democratic structures that already started way before Trump. An election in which there are only two (practical) choices, one of them openly insane, is not a useful election anymore.

jaldhar 7mo ago
Isn’t expecting American voters to worry about the consequences to Europe also an erosion of democracy? MAGA is just the latest incarnation of a deep isolationist trend in American politics that goes back to the WW1 era at least. The Western project was an elite one and now the elite is discredited by both the Right and Left. As I mentioned before, I live in a blue state and most people I know voted for Harris. But I would say 9 out of 10 did because they felt they had to not because they wanted to. The governing structure of the Democratic party has not changed and still favors identity over mundane factors like competence or electability. And Europes needs are not high in the priorities of American identity politics sorry.
- mindslight 7mo ago
  > Democratic party ... still favors identity over mundane factors like competence You really need to actually read what you write to realize how drunk on the Trump distortion field you are. Trump's entire schtick is identity politics - being a popular low-intelligence trashy white guy who poor trashy white guys will think "he's one of us". You really cannot hang your hat on a critique of "competence" here after the jamoke just gave away the Strait of Hormuz to Iran. Harris, which really means the bureaucratic group project that Harris would have continued, would most certainly not have done something so abjectly incompetent. As a libertarian I'll criticize the Democratic party, their policies, and their groupthink all day long. But thinking that any of that criticism implies an alternative of burning our society down is rooted in pure nihilism.
  - jacquesm 7mo ago
    It never was, it was just a trial run to see whether Trump's private army is going to be obeying orders or not. So far the results are nothing to be happy about. What is fascinating is how the media still whitewashes it all. ICE detention centers -> concentration camps. They're not 'vernichtungslager' yet but who knows, we might still get there, there are enough people that have dehumanized immigrants (illegal or otherwise) to the point that I would not be surprised at all if at some point more drastic attempts for a final solution will be tabled. I don't trust that slimy asshole Miller at all. It always starts with registries, then there is detention, then deportation and finally murder. And they've already shown they are very capable of the latter, the only word still missing is 'mass'.
    - xg15 7mo ago
      Or he just outsources them to some buddies of his: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_Confinement_Center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_Confinement_Center > CECOT does not engage in rehabilitation. Few inmates have been released from the facility and authorities have said in media statements that there are no plans to release any other prisoners.
  - jaldhar 7mo ago
    I was talking about the Democratic party. The appropriate comparison would be to the Republican party. I 100% agree Trump himself practices identity politics. That was the innovation that helped him beat establishment rivals in 2016. But I would argue even then there is a distinction. The Trump vision is an American civic identity as opposed to Democrat demographic identities. Complicating things is that American civic identity historically overlaps quite strongly with white identity which is convenient but they are still two separate things (even though some of his supporters might wish otherwise.) that's why he has done better with non-white voters than any Republican candidate for a long time.
    - jacquesm 7mo ago
      > To another point (I’m a three time Trump voter in a solidly blue state fyi) the point of electing him in the first place was to assault “our” (i.e. your) social constructs. The MAGA critique of Trump is he is not being concerted enough. I don't think that's true at all. That's just the button he pushes to get elected but he doesn't care even a tiny little bit about that. All he cares about is for you to vote for him and to give him what he wants: access to the levers of power, so he and his cronies get to enrich themselves at your expense. The idea that Trump cares about voters is so hilarious that I'm not sure where exactly you got that, he doesn't care about the voters at all, just about their votes. That's a huge difference. That you fall for this - and three times to boot - is on you, not on Trump. Note how now that he is in power that 'civic identity' doesn't matter at all. It's going to be a rude awakening when the bill is presented, but you are going to have to own it.
- xg15 7mo ago
  > Isn’t expecting American voters to worry about the consequences to Europe also an erosion of democracy. Once America denounces its superpower status and "leader of the free world" image, you will be right. Until then, it's "with great power comes great responsibility" (or, well, should at least. Evidently in reality, it doesn't)
  - jaldhar 7mo ago
    "Once America denounces it's superpower status and 'leader of the free world' image..." That's exactly what a large part of MAGA want! America First and the rest of the world be damned. I don't think that's realistic and Trump himself doesn't I don't think.

by xg15 7mo ago

jaldhar 7mo ago

Isn’t expecting American voters to worry about the consequences to Europe also an erosion of democracy? MAGA is just the latest incarnation of a deep isolationist trend in American politics that goes back to the WW1 era at least. The Western project was an elite one and now the elite is discredited by both the Right and Left. As I mentioned before, I live in a blue state and most people I know voted for Harris. But I would say 9 out of 10 did because they felt they had to not because they wanted to. The governing structure of the Democratic party has not changed and still favors identity over mundane factors like competence or electability. And Europes needs are not high in the priorities of American identity politics sorry.

mindslight 7mo ago
> Democratic party ... still favors identity over mundane factors like competence You really need to actually read what you write to realize how drunk on the Trump distortion field you are. Trump's entire schtick is identity politics - being a popular low-intelligence trashy white guy who poor trashy white guys will think "he's one of us". You really cannot hang your hat on a critique of "competence" here after the jamoke just gave away the Strait of Hormuz to Iran. Harris, which really means the bureaucratic group project that Harris would have continued, would most certainly not have done something so abjectly incompetent. As a libertarian I'll criticize the Democratic party, their policies, and their groupthink all day long. But thinking that any of that criticism implies an alternative of burning our society down is rooted in pure nihilism.
- jacquesm 7mo ago
  It never was, it was just a trial run to see whether Trump's private army is going to be obeying orders or not. So far the results are nothing to be happy about. What is fascinating is how the media still whitewashes it all. ICE detention centers -> concentration camps. They're not 'vernichtungslager' yet but who knows, we might still get there, there are enough people that have dehumanized immigrants (illegal or otherwise) to the point that I would not be surprised at all if at some point more drastic attempts for a final solution will be tabled. I don't trust that slimy asshole Miller at all. It always starts with registries, then there is detention, then deportation and finally murder. And they've already shown they are very capable of the latter, the only word still missing is 'mass'.
  - xg15 7mo ago
    Or he just outsources them to some buddies of his: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_Confinement_Center https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_Confinement_Center > CECOT does not engage in rehabilitation. Few inmates have been released from the facility and authorities have said in media statements that there are no plans to release any other prisoners.
- jaldhar 7mo ago
  I was talking about the Democratic party. The appropriate comparison would be to the Republican party. I 100% agree Trump himself practices identity politics. That was the innovation that helped him beat establishment rivals in 2016. But I would argue even then there is a distinction. The Trump vision is an American civic identity as opposed to Democrat demographic identities. Complicating things is that American civic identity historically overlaps quite strongly with white identity which is convenient but they are still two separate things (even though some of his supporters might wish otherwise.) that's why he has done better with non-white voters than any Republican candidate for a long time.
  - jacquesm 7mo ago
    > To another point (I’m a three time Trump voter in a solidly blue state fyi) the point of electing him in the first place was to assault “our” (i.e. your) social constructs. The MAGA critique of Trump is he is not being concerted enough. I don't think that's true at all. That's just the button he pushes to get elected but he doesn't care even a tiny little bit about that. All he cares about is for you to vote for him and to give him what he wants: access to the levers of power, so he and his cronies get to enrich themselves at your expense. The idea that Trump cares about voters is so hilarious that I'm not sure where exactly you got that, he doesn't care about the voters at all, just about their votes. That's a huge difference. That you fall for this - and three times to boot - is on you, not on Trump. Note how now that he is in power that 'civic identity' doesn't matter at all. It's going to be a rude awakening when the bill is presented, but you are going to have to own it.
xg15 7mo ago
> Isn’t expecting American voters to worry about the consequences to Europe also an erosion of democracy. Once America denounces its superpower status and "leader of the free world" image, you will be right. Until then, it's "with great power comes great responsibility" (or, well, should at least. Evidently in reality, it doesn't)
- jaldhar 7mo ago
  "Once America denounces it's superpower status and 'leader of the free world' image..." That's exactly what a large part of MAGA want! America First and the rest of the world be damned. I don't think that's realistic and Trump himself doesn't I don't think.