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It seems like you're calling an entire game engine "ECS". I'm not sure what the point is here, the whole question was what justifies having a 50 MB hello world
by CyberDildonics 6mo ago
It seems like you're calling an entire game engine "ECS". I'm not sure what the point is here, the whole question was what justifies having a 50 MB hello world binary. It doesn't matter what you put into a data structure, the data structure itself shouldn't make 50 MB binaries.
- fluffybucktsnek 6mo agoNo, they aren't calling the entire game engine "ECS". Entity-Component-System is an architecture that Bevy is structured around. As I have previously stated, I wouldn't blame the data structures used behind Bevy just yet, given Rust's tendency for making bloated binaries. What is taking the most space in this 50MB binary? How does it scale with the complexity of the application?
- CyberDildonics 6mo agoEven if you can put a function pointer into a data structure, that's still just a data structure.
- fluffybucktsnek 6mo agoI don't know where you are trying to go with this logic. You still haven't assured that the 50MB is actually related to data structures used behind by bevy, lest you are insunating that the data structures used by bevy are solely responsible for that size, which is not what the post claims.
- CyberDildonics 6mo agoYou should probably read the whole thread. You jumped in half way through and got all mixed up.
- fluffybucktsnek 6mo agoI know the thread. Your point is about whether Bevy's "data structure" is worth 50MB. I pressing on the fact that you haven't shown what this 50MB actually are. But, out of curiosity, do you also consider the Linux Kernel also a data structure?
- CyberDildonics 6mo agoI pressing on the fact that you haven't shown what this 50MB actually are. To be clear you think an ECS implementation is 50 MB? But, out of curiosity, do you also consider the Linux Kernel also a data structure? Do you think a spreadsheet the holds function pointers is a kernel?
- fluffybucktsnek 6mo ago> To be clear you think an ECS implementation is 50MB? No. > Do you think a spreadsheet the[sic] holds a function pointer is a kernel? Do you think an entire engine, including its system scheduler, is a spreadsheet? If so, shouldn't be hard to apply the same argument to any kernel. Of course, it all relies on your definitions and sense of reductionism.
- CyberDildonics 6mo agoI think you're conflating other big features of a game engine with a way to store data. If you look at other ecs implementations they are data structures, they don't do "system scheduling" (is that different from regular scheduling?)
- fluffybucktsnek 6mo agoOther ECS implementations might not, but Bevy does come with a system scheduler. You register systems (functions that operate over the components) and, through their parameters, Bevy's scheduler decides how to parallelize the registered systems while avoid data races.
- alfiedotwtf 6mo agoHow small is a hello world in C on Linux? The last time I checked a few years ago, it was either 9Mb or 13Mb (memory is fuzzy on this one but one of them was right). Edit: wow I’m way off… it must have been the 90s when I checked this lol
- fluffybucktsnek 6mo agoYeah, testing here with GCC 13.3.0 led to 16K. Perhaps, when you made your test, the compiler was statically linking some libs, which would explain the massive increase in size.
- CyberDildonics 6mo agoC statically linked hello world binaries have never been 9MB or 13MB, they definitely weren't in the 90s. Also these are rust binaries. https://github.com/MichalStrehovsky/sizegame https://github.com/MichalStrehovsky/sizegame