4 ms·

No, they really can't. First, if they are not using anything with pectin in it, there isn't a significant amount of methanol at all worth measuring. Second, i

No, they really can't. First, if they are not using anything with pectin in it, there isn't a significant amount of methanol at all worth measuring. Second, if they did use fruit skins in the fermentation stage, there still isn't enough methanol to compete with the ethanol, (which is the cure to methanol poisoning) with out intentionally poisoning the batch. You shouldn't push such FUD.

swasheck 6mo ago
ok. thanks for the correction. that’s good information that helps me overcome some of the FUD i’ve received
angry_octet 6mo ago
> ethanol, (which is the cure to methanol poisoning) Now that is completely incorrect. There is no way to prevent metabolism of methanol once it has been ingested, ethanol just competes with it for metabolisis. Alcohol fermented from fruit byproduct is extremely common in many cultures. It is asinine to think that only grain will be used once this is legalised. https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/methanol-poisoning-the-chemistry-behind-how-a-toxic-alcohol-gets-into-drinks/4021801.article https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/methanol-poisoning-the-c... If you don't get on dialysis within 24 hours of drinking more than 30mL of ethanol there is high risk of blindness, and higher doses can easily cause death.
- btreecat 6mo ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol_toxicity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol_toxicity "Methanol poisoning can be treated with fomepizole or ethanol.[19][22][23] Both drugs act to reduce the action of alcohol dehydrogenase on methanol by means of competitive inhibition. Ethanol, the active ingredient in alcoholic beverages, acts as a competitive inhibitor by more effectively binding and saturating the alcohol dehydrogenase enzyme in the liver, thus blocking the binding of methanol. Methanol is excreted by the kidneys without being converted into the toxic metabolites formaldehyde and formic acid. " So completely correct. >Alcohol fermented from fruit byproduct is extremely common in many cultures. It is asinine to think that only grain will be used once this is legalised. Not what I was saying at all. You could use grain, or sugar (cheapest and easiest). That said, the levels are not significantly high enough to poison you unless someone is trying to poison you. It's not happening when making alcohol to drink. From the link you posted >Administering patients with controlled doses of either ethanol or fomepizole is standard practice. Again, what I said is completely correct, your own source confirmed it. Secondly, also from the article >Bootleg brewers also sometimes add enough methanol to informally produced spirits to cause serious health effects. Again, as I said, someone intentionally trying to poison you. And here's an actual study https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2405844024083488 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S240584402... >Both commercial and home-distilled alcohols exhibited methanol concentrations remarkably below the 0.35 % limit for brandy set by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. You're simply misinformed.
  - Anamon 6mo ago
    From how I'm reading this, you're disagreeing with the parent but your quotes actually support what they wrote? Ethanol is not an antidote or "cure", it's more or less an attempt at dilution. There are other posts in this thread explaining why it's dangerous to believe that methanol poisoning can simply be counteracted with ethanol. >Bootleg brewers also sometimes add enough methanol to informally produced spirits to cause serious health effects. I don't think the "to" here is meant to imply intent. It's "enough to", referring to the amount. I don't know where the notion comes from that people try to intentionally poison people with moonshine. Maybe in a Columbo episode. It happens when people cut corners or don't pay attention or get scammed.
    - angry_octet 6mo ago
      The US Govt did it during prohibition. It has been retconned by wacky homebrew fringe into a belief that all poisonings are due to adulteration, probably by Big Alcohol.
      - btreecat 6mo ago
        https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/0b908be6-2673-45a5-8c2f-b3b6abc1aa37 https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/0b9... “As methanol is highly soluble in water, it will distil over more at the end of distillations when vapours are richer in water. That means, methanol will appear in almost equal concentration in almost all fractions of pot still distillation in reference to ethanol (i.e., as g/hL pa), until the very end where it accumulates in the so-called tailings fraction. However, even today many professional distillers believe that methanol concentrates preferably in the first fractions.” Hernández, J. A., Wörner, S., & Riedl, K. (2021). Methanol Mitigation during Manufacturing of Fruit Spirits with Special Regard to Novel Coffee Cherry Spirits. Foods, 10(5), 994.
    - btreecat 6mo ago
      There isn't enough methanol procured during distillation to cause I'll effects. So home made spirits are safe. So if someone gets methanol poisoning from shine, it's because it was added by someone intentionally. So don't buy bootleg spirits.

swasheck 6mo ago

ok. thanks for the correction. that’s good information that helps me overcome some of the FUD i’ve received

angry_octet 6mo ago

> ethanol, (which is the cure to methanol poisoning) Now that is completely incorrect. There is no way to prevent metabolism of methanol once it has been ingested, ethanol just competes with it for metabolisis. Alcohol fermented from fruit byproduct is extremely common in many cultures. It is asinine to think that only grain will be used once this is legalised. https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/methanol-poisoning-the-chemistry-behind-how-a-toxic-alcohol-gets-into-drinks/4021801.article https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/methanol-poisoning-the-c... If you don't get on dialysis within 24 hours of drinking more than 30mL of ethanol there is high risk of blindness, and higher doses can easily cause death.

btreecat 6mo ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol_toxicity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol_toxicity "Methanol poisoning can be treated with fomepizole or ethanol.[19][22][23] Both drugs act to reduce the action of alcohol dehydrogenase on methanol by means of competitive inhibition. Ethanol, the active ingredient in alcoholic beverages, acts as a competitive inhibitor by more effectively binding and saturating the alcohol dehydrogenase enzyme in the liver, thus blocking the binding of methanol. Methanol is excreted by the kidneys without being converted into the toxic metabolites formaldehyde and formic acid. " So completely correct. >Alcohol fermented from fruit byproduct is extremely common in many cultures. It is asinine to think that only grain will be used once this is legalised. Not what I was saying at all. You could use grain, or sugar (cheapest and easiest). That said, the levels are not significantly high enough to poison you unless someone is trying to poison you. It's not happening when making alcohol to drink. From the link you posted >Administering patients with controlled doses of either ethanol or fomepizole is standard practice. Again, what I said is completely correct, your own source confirmed it. Secondly, also from the article >Bootleg brewers also sometimes add enough methanol to informally produced spirits to cause serious health effects. Again, as I said, someone intentionally trying to poison you. And here's an actual study https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2405844024083488 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S240584402... >Both commercial and home-distilled alcohols exhibited methanol concentrations remarkably below the 0.35 % limit for brandy set by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. You're simply misinformed.
- Anamon 6mo ago
  From how I'm reading this, you're disagreeing with the parent but your quotes actually support what they wrote? Ethanol is not an antidote or "cure", it's more or less an attempt at dilution. There are other posts in this thread explaining why it's dangerous to believe that methanol poisoning can simply be counteracted with ethanol. >Bootleg brewers also sometimes add enough methanol to informally produced spirits to cause serious health effects. I don't think the "to" here is meant to imply intent. It's "enough to", referring to the amount. I don't know where the notion comes from that people try to intentionally poison people with moonshine. Maybe in a Columbo episode. It happens when people cut corners or don't pay attention or get scammed.
  - angry_octet 6mo ago
    The US Govt did it during prohibition. It has been retconned by wacky homebrew fringe into a belief that all poisonings are due to adulteration, probably by Big Alcohol.
    - btreecat 6mo ago
      https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/0b908be6-2673-45a5-8c2f-b3b6abc1aa37 https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/0b9... “As methanol is highly soluble in water, it will distil over more at the end of distillations when vapours are richer in water. That means, methanol will appear in almost equal concentration in almost all fractions of pot still distillation in reference to ethanol (i.e., as g/hL pa), until the very end where it accumulates in the so-called tailings fraction. However, even today many professional distillers believe that methanol concentrates preferably in the first fractions.” Hernández, J. A., Wörner, S., & Riedl, K. (2021). Methanol Mitigation during Manufacturing of Fruit Spirits with Special Regard to Novel Coffee Cherry Spirits. Foods, 10(5), 994.
  - btreecat 6mo ago
    There isn't enough methanol procured during distillation to cause I'll effects. So home made spirits are safe. So if someone gets methanol poisoning from shine, it's because it was added by someone intentionally. So don't buy bootleg spirits.