3 ms·

People keep repeating this without any real thought behind it because of the high profile resignations on the Qwen team. Meanwhile the Minimax team just release

People keep repeating this without any real thought behind it because of the high profile resignations on the Qwen team. Meanwhile the Minimax team just released a new open weights version of their 229B model yesterday. So much for that narrative. The AI landscape in China is larger than just Qwen and Alibaba.

dns_snek 6mo ago
Of course, but for how long? Do you think that companies will keep giving away valuable assets for free forever, or do you think that in the near future there's going to be an open weights model that's so good that people keep using it indefinitely instead of going back to frontier model providers? The first one is just incredibly naive, the second might be true for some people, for some tasks, but it's not going to capture the majority who're chasing the latest and greatest to "keep up".
- Throaway199999 6mo ago
  the asset's value is in being released, so yes
  - dns_snek 6mo ago
    What does that mean?
    - Throaway199999 6mo ago
      Every time you release the models you even the playing field out for the competition, which ruins a lot of the advantage your bigger competitors had. It also lets smaller players work on the latest tech and then you can make deals with them.
- bachmeier 6mo ago
  > Do you think that companies will keep giving away valuable assets for free forever If China is forced to choose between giving the entire AI market to the US or releasing free models, they'll be releasing free models as long as it's necessary.
- CamperBob2 6mo ago
  do you think that in the near future there's going to be an open weights model that's so good that people keep using it indefinitely instead of going back to frontier model providers? We are almost at that point now, where the harnesses and tools are more important drivers of functionality and performance than the model weights themselves. We'll get there.
andriy_koval 6mo ago
> Meanwhile the Minimax team just released a new open weights version of their 229B model yesterday. its under new license prohibiting any commercial use.
- Zetaphor 6mo ago
  The statement was that China was giving up on open weights, they didn't say anything about licensing. Licensing on these models has always been hit or miss depending on which lab and which release.
  - andriy_koval 6mo ago
    but context of the statement is discussion about corps do grab and rent strategy. My understanding is that referenced Chinese model can't be argument in this context, and there is no recent 200B+ params Chinese models with friendly license. That license is more like business source license vs open source license.
- CamperBob2 6mo ago
  Who in the world would care about that, and why? You know what else was under a license prohibiting commercial use? The training data.
  - andriy_koval 6mo ago
    small shops are vulnerable against lawsuites, when will start spitting watermark text passages.

dns_snek 6mo ago

Of course, but for how long? Do you think that companies will keep giving away valuable assets for free forever, or do you think that in the near future there's going to be an open weights model that's so good that people keep using it indefinitely instead of going back to frontier model providers? The first one is just incredibly naive, the second might be true for some people, for some tasks, but it's not going to capture the majority who're chasing the latest and greatest to "keep up".

Throaway199999 6mo ago
the asset's value is in being released, so yes
- dns_snek 6mo ago
  What does that mean?
  - Throaway199999 6mo ago
    Every time you release the models you even the playing field out for the competition, which ruins a lot of the advantage your bigger competitors had. It also lets smaller players work on the latest tech and then you can make deals with them.
bachmeier 6mo ago
> Do you think that companies will keep giving away valuable assets for free forever If China is forced to choose between giving the entire AI market to the US or releasing free models, they'll be releasing free models as long as it's necessary.
CamperBob2 6mo ago
do you think that in the near future there's going to be an open weights model that's so good that people keep using it indefinitely instead of going back to frontier model providers? We are almost at that point now, where the harnesses and tools are more important drivers of functionality and performance than the model weights themselves. We'll get there.

andriy_koval 6mo ago

> Meanwhile the Minimax team just released a new open weights version of their 229B model yesterday. its under new license prohibiting any commercial use.

Zetaphor 6mo ago
The statement was that China was giving up on open weights, they didn't say anything about licensing. Licensing on these models has always been hit or miss depending on which lab and which release.
- andriy_koval 6mo ago
  but context of the statement is discussion about corps do grab and rent strategy. My understanding is that referenced Chinese model can't be argument in this context, and there is no recent 200B+ params Chinese models with friendly license. That license is more like business source license vs open source license.
CamperBob2 6mo ago
Who in the world would care about that, and why? You know what else was under a license prohibiting commercial use? The training data.
- andriy_koval 6mo ago
  small shops are vulnerable against lawsuites, when will start spitting watermark text passages.