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> … 1868 … $10,000 fine. If the original 1868 law stated $10,000, that’s insane (equivalent of millions, these days). If not, then that might mean this law has

> … 1868 … $10,000 fine. If the original 1868 law stated $10,000, that’s insane (equivalent of millions, these days). If not, then that might mean this law has been regularly reviewed and updated, so it’s not just something that was lost in the back of the cabinet.

martin-t 7mo ago
If laws were written by engineers, all sums of money would be expressed relative to median income. And at that point it wouldn't be a stretch for most people to make the connection that some people are more privileged than others and fines should be relative to personal wealth and income. Imagine if laws were written by people who know what a function is...
- ciupicri 7mo ago
  From https://etsc.eu/billionaires-eur-25000-drink-driving-fine-puts-means-tested-penalties-in-the-spotlight/ https://etsc.eu/billionaires-eur-25000-drink-driving-fine-pu... > A Norwegian billionaire that recorded a BAC level three times higher than the legal limit has been banned from driving and handed a 250,000 krone fine (EUR 25,000). But the fine could have been much higher as, under Norwegian law, fines are linked to monthly income and in some cases overall wealth. > Finland has a ‘day fine’ system, with penalties linked to an offender’s wages.
  - Anamon 7mo ago
    I think it's pretty common in Europe, at least for minor offences. We have it in Switzerland, too. How it works here is that the fines are defined in "day rates" instead of monetary amount, and a day rate is half your daily income.
    - ciupicri 7mo ago
      We don't have it in Romania.
- smnrchrds 7mo ago
  Australia already does something like this. I don't know if there were any engineers involved in designing it. https://www.afsa.gov.au/professionals/resource-hub/penalty-units https://www.afsa.gov.au/professionals/resource-hub/penalty-u...
- mikewarot 7mo ago
  >If laws were written by engineers, all sums of money would be expressed relative to median income. If laws were written by engineers, money would hold its value, and the laws wouldn't require constant adjustment.
  - AgentOrange1234 7mo ago
    You and I must know different engineers.
    - dlcarrier 7mo ago
      If all laws were written by the engineers I know, they'd contain loopholes so they could do whatever they want. * Houses must follow building code, except for subparagraph C part II. * Vehicles must obey speed limits, except for subparagraph C part II. … * Somewhere buried in subparagraph C part II: Any owner, occupier, or user of property, real or physical, can file a writ of "I don't want to" with the county, which shall be automatically accepted, exempting said owner, occupier, or user from regulations.
      - tempaccount5050 7mo ago
        That's literally how it works right now.
  - martin-t 7mo ago
    Well, inflation is a trick how to steal from people without actually reaching into their wallets. In that regard, it's genius. Imagine the alternative that once in a while the government says it needs more money and just subtracts it from your bank account. There'd be riots.
    - ChrisMarshallNY 7mo ago
      > There'd be riots Like in France? I think that was over gas prices.
- ninalanyon 7mo ago
  Why median income? Why not the income of the individuals concerned. Any fixed value fine simply means that the wealthy can just treat it as a cost.
  - martin-t 7mo ago
    That's what I meant in the second sentence. It's not just about fines, many countries have support for families with children. I don't think the rich should get more money per child. For fines, it absolutely makes sense. A harsher alternative is to stop using fines altogether and instead give "prison micro-sentences" - a few hours or days in prison. It makes perfect sense - when you pay a fine, you lost a bit of your life by working and not having anything to show for it at the end. So why not make it direct and just take a bit of time directly from the person. It nicely sidesteps various tricks how the rich hide their assets, too. Of course, the administrative overhead would be much larger, but then the offenders could take some part in maintaining the prison. Nothing would be more humbling to a privileged person than cleaning the prison toilet.
    - ninalanyon 6mo ago
      > "prison micro-sentences" Brilliant!

martin-t 7mo ago

If laws were written by engineers, all sums of money would be expressed relative to median income. And at that point it wouldn't be a stretch for most people to make the connection that some people are more privileged than others and fines should be relative to personal wealth and income. Imagine if laws were written by people who know what a function is...

ciupicri 7mo ago
From https://etsc.eu/billionaires-eur-25000-drink-driving-fine-puts-means-tested-penalties-in-the-spotlight/ https://etsc.eu/billionaires-eur-25000-drink-driving-fine-pu... > A Norwegian billionaire that recorded a BAC level three times higher than the legal limit has been banned from driving and handed a 250,000 krone fine (EUR 25,000). But the fine could have been much higher as, under Norwegian law, fines are linked to monthly income and in some cases overall wealth. > Finland has a ‘day fine’ system, with penalties linked to an offender’s wages.
- Anamon 7mo ago
  I think it's pretty common in Europe, at least for minor offences. We have it in Switzerland, too. How it works here is that the fines are defined in "day rates" instead of monetary amount, and a day rate is half your daily income.
  - ciupicri 7mo ago
    We don't have it in Romania.
smnrchrds 7mo ago
Australia already does something like this. I don't know if there were any engineers involved in designing it. https://www.afsa.gov.au/professionals/resource-hub/penalty-units https://www.afsa.gov.au/professionals/resource-hub/penalty-u...
mikewarot 7mo ago
>If laws were written by engineers, all sums of money would be expressed relative to median income. If laws were written by engineers, money would hold its value, and the laws wouldn't require constant adjustment.
- AgentOrange1234 7mo ago
  You and I must know different engineers.
  - dlcarrier 7mo ago
    If all laws were written by the engineers I know, they'd contain loopholes so they could do whatever they want. * Houses must follow building code, except for subparagraph C part II. * Vehicles must obey speed limits, except for subparagraph C part II. … * Somewhere buried in subparagraph C part II: Any owner, occupier, or user of property, real or physical, can file a writ of "I don't want to" with the county, which shall be automatically accepted, exempting said owner, occupier, or user from regulations.
    - tempaccount5050 7mo ago
      That's literally how it works right now.
- martin-t 7mo ago
  Well, inflation is a trick how to steal from people without actually reaching into their wallets. In that regard, it's genius. Imagine the alternative that once in a while the government says it needs more money and just subtracts it from your bank account. There'd be riots.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 7mo ago
    > There'd be riots Like in France? I think that was over gas prices.
ninalanyon 7mo ago
Why median income? Why not the income of the individuals concerned. Any fixed value fine simply means that the wealthy can just treat it as a cost.
- martin-t 7mo ago
  That's what I meant in the second sentence. It's not just about fines, many countries have support for families with children. I don't think the rich should get more money per child. For fines, it absolutely makes sense. A harsher alternative is to stop using fines altogether and instead give "prison micro-sentences" - a few hours or days in prison. It makes perfect sense - when you pay a fine, you lost a bit of your life by working and not having anything to show for it at the end. So why not make it direct and just take a bit of time directly from the person. It nicely sidesteps various tricks how the rich hide their assets, too. Of course, the administrative overhead would be much larger, but then the offenders could take some part in maintaining the prison. Nothing would be more humbling to a privileged person than cleaning the prison toilet.
  - ninalanyon 6mo ago
    > "prison micro-sentences" Brilliant!