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It is very much so complicated though. The conversations about UBI in the internet has been around since I’ve been online. And since then, there hasn’t been a s

It is very much so complicated though. The conversations about UBI in the internet has been around since I’ve been online. And since then, there hasn’t been a single large scale test of the system to see if it can be compatible with the current version of capitalism that’s ran in the most of the world. Even if I support UBI morally, there isn’t even local appetite for it, yet alone global one. And you’ll run into quick questions about inflations, every chart from UBI-lite era of COVID, and so on.

JCattheATM 7mo ago
> It is very much so complicated though. The conversations about UBI in the internet has been around since I’ve been online. Polarizing doesn't mean complicated. There's people against it due to ignorance, greed of both, it's certainly not more complicated than that. > And since then, there hasn’t been a single large scale test of the system to see if it can be compatible with the current version of capitalism that’s ran in the most of the world. Because people keep fighting against it, because it's scary scary sOcIaLiSm. > Even if I support UBI morally As you should, there are no moral arguments against it. > there isn’t even local appetite for it, yet alone global one. I would think the majority of the population struggling to pay for groceries would disagree. > And you’ll run into quick questions about inflations, every chart from UBI-lite era of COVID, and so on. No reason to think UBI would cause inflation at all, actually. In any case, this really is the answer. You're worried about disruption due to AI taking jobs, but the only reason there is a problem is because AI will drastically increase inequality by letting rich people and corps become even richer. You want to solve the issue, you solve the disparity by making them give back their fair share. Like I said, simple.
singpolyma3 7mo ago
"no large scale test" seems false -- there have been several? "Compatible with current version of captialism" -- the whole point of UBI is to create a new form of capitalism
- tokioyoyo 6mo ago
  I'm sorry, but we might have different definitions of "large scale". There's functional, feasible, and cultural differences when it comes to trying it on 5,000 people in a small town, versus trying it on a whole state / big city and etc.
  - Anamon 6mo ago
    And within a limited timeframe. I'd expect people in such experimemts to act differently when they're aware that after x months/years, they'll have to find their place in the same capitalist economy again.
MidnightRider39 7mo ago
Here is a list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_basic_income_pilots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_basic_income_pilots Probably not the scale you imagine but there have been plenty of tests.
- tokioyoyo 6mo ago
  Yeah, I have looked through those. I remember personally as the Ontario one was going through. Even then it already had a huge backlash, and people were opposing to it because of "fairness and etc.". Unfortunately none of those tests can help with understanding what would happen to inflation, jobs that nobody wants to do, life satisfaction of middle class, and everything else, to be honest. And I also understand that trying it out on any large populace is incredibly expensive.
  - MidnightRider39 6mo ago
    Maybe something more fitting would be the German unemployment benefits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%BCrgergeld https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%BCrgergeld It’s of course not the same as UBI, but something close to it - basically everyone is entitled to it and while it’s really not a lot you can survive off it.
xyzsparetimexyz 7mo ago
The minute you institute UBI, everyone working a shit, low paying job such as trash collection is gone. You're going to have big problems if those jobs are not immediately supplanted by AI

JCattheATM 7mo ago

> It is very much so complicated though. The conversations about UBI in the internet has been around since I’ve been online. Polarizing doesn't mean complicated. There's people against it due to ignorance, greed of both, it's certainly not more complicated than that. > And since then, there hasn’t been a single large scale test of the system to see if it can be compatible with the current version of capitalism that’s ran in the most of the world. Because people keep fighting against it, because it's scary scary sOcIaLiSm. > Even if I support UBI morally As you should, there are no moral arguments against it. > there isn’t even local appetite for it, yet alone global one. I would think the majority of the population struggling to pay for groceries would disagree. > And you’ll run into quick questions about inflations, every chart from UBI-lite era of COVID, and so on. No reason to think UBI would cause inflation at all, actually. In any case, this really is the answer. You're worried about disruption due to AI taking jobs, but the only reason there is a problem is because AI will drastically increase inequality by letting rich people and corps become even richer. You want to solve the issue, you solve the disparity by making them give back their fair share. Like I said, simple.

singpolyma3 7mo ago

"no large scale test" seems false -- there have been several? "Compatible with current version of captialism" -- the whole point of UBI is to create a new form of capitalism

tokioyoyo 6mo ago
I'm sorry, but we might have different definitions of "large scale". There's functional, feasible, and cultural differences when it comes to trying it on 5,000 people in a small town, versus trying it on a whole state / big city and etc.
- Anamon 6mo ago
  And within a limited timeframe. I'd expect people in such experimemts to act differently when they're aware that after x months/years, they'll have to find their place in the same capitalist economy again.

MidnightRider39 7mo ago

Here is a list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_basic_income_pilots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_basic_income_pilots Probably not the scale you imagine but there have been plenty of tests.

tokioyoyo 6mo ago
Yeah, I have looked through those. I remember personally as the Ontario one was going through. Even then it already had a huge backlash, and people were opposing to it because of "fairness and etc.". Unfortunately none of those tests can help with understanding what would happen to inflation, jobs that nobody wants to do, life satisfaction of middle class, and everything else, to be honest. And I also understand that trying it out on any large populace is incredibly expensive.
- MidnightRider39 6mo ago
  Maybe something more fitting would be the German unemployment benefits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%BCrgergeld https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%BCrgergeld It’s of course not the same as UBI, but something close to it - basically everyone is entitled to it and while it’s really not a lot you can survive off it.

xyzsparetimexyz 7mo ago

The minute you institute UBI, everyone working a shit, low paying job such as trash collection is gone. You're going to have big problems if those jobs are not immediately supplanted by AI