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From ~1906 through prohibition the Feds purposely poisoned industrial alcohol with methanol and other chemicals as a deterrent. 100 years ago, in 1926, they inc

From ~1906 through prohibition the Feds purposely poisoned industrial alcohol with methanol and other chemicals as a deterrent. 100 years ago, in 1926, they increased it, up to as much as 10%. This was true rotgut. Around 10,000 people, mostly poor, died from it. Blindness, organ failure, paralysis. This was legal and regulated by the Volstead Act. It was the primary source of methanol poisoning during prohibition.

freedomben 6mo ago
Yep, never forget. The government literally poisoned people. Anytime I mention this I get eye rolls and immediate dismissal as a kook. It's quite frustrating.
- hilbert42 6mo ago
  I keep raising this and I cannot understand why many people can't understand the facts. You're right, it's damn frustrating.
giantg2 6mo ago
Do you have a source?
- twsahjklf 6mo ago
  Not parent, but after 1 minute of googling: https://historyfacts.com/us-history/fact/the-u-s-government-poisoned-alcohol-during-prohibition/ https://historyfacts.com/us-history/fact/the-u-s-government-... Note that we are talking about industrial alcohol, which was not made for human consumption but could be distilled to make it palatable (before the toxic additives were added).
  - giantg2 6mo ago
    They made it sound as if they were poisoning alcohol intended for drinking (looks like it was possibly edited or I missed that it said industrial). Methanol and other additives are still added to most industrial alcohol today.
    - hilbert42 6mo ago
      "Methanol and other additives are still added to most industrial alcohol today." Depends in which country you reside. Where I am the denaturants methanol and pyridine were removed decades ago and replaced with the nontoxic bitterant denatonium.
      - giantg2 6mo ago
        Yeah, the context was in the US.
direwolf20 6mo ago
This is still routinely done to avoid ethanol taxes. It's called "denatured alcohol". Ethanol that has been poisoned is not considered drinkable alcohol, so not subject to the taxes on drinkable alcohol.
- general1465 6mo ago
  Furthermore denatured alcohol is also flavored in such a way that normal person would throw up on spot how bitter it is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatonium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatonium
  - fuzzfactor 6mo ago
    Beyond the recognized "Formulas" such as Formula No. 40-B, there are a number of other "flavors" of denaturants, pages of them starting at section 21.91: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-27/chapter-I/subchapter-A/part-21 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-27/chapter-I/subchapter-A... The only purpose is not to "jeopardize the revenue." In that respect, regardless of the rate being levied, the result on behavior was intended to be very strict and immediate.
refurb 6mo ago
This is still done today if you buy tax free ethanol. The intent is not to poison people, since the alcohol is not intended for consumption.
hilbert42 6mo ago
Aren't morals strange? Governments would rather poison and blind those who would imbibe ethanol when it's prohibited or when they do so without paying excise tax. Morally and ethically such action results in a much worse outcome for society for many reasons. Unfortunately, that's not the view of many or those laws would not have been enacted. Even in our more enlightened times many still hold such punitive beliefs as witnessed by some posts here on HN. It seems to me opinion on whether or not alcoholic beverages ought to be permitted in society has been around so long and yet still remains so divided that the chasm will likely never close. Fortunately, where I live (Australia) the toxic denaturants in ethanol (methanol (~15℅) and pyridine (~3%)) were removed quite some decades ago and replaced with a nontoxic denaturant—the bitterant denatonium. We nevertheless still have a lingering reminder of the past: the once non-potable ethanol was called "Methylated Spirits" and its replacement still is! Nowadays, the methanol and pyridine are gone and what's always been colloquially nicknamed "Metho" is still labeled "Methylated Spirits" but now only consists of 95% ethanol and 5% water—the trace amount of denatonium denaturant isn't even mentioned on the label but it's definitely there. An interesting observation: the old toxic methylated ethanol was emblazoned with the word "POISON" whereas our new Metho sans MeOH is only labeled "CAUTION". BTW, above I mentioned the chasm never closing, whilst writing this my earlier post has oscillated wildly around a net 0, I now have the same number of votes that I started with before posting. Seems opinions are even more divided on this subject than I'd ever imagined (damn shame HN only tallies totals and not both up and down votes).

freedomben 6mo ago

Yep, never forget. The government literally poisoned people. Anytime I mention this I get eye rolls and immediate dismissal as a kook. It's quite frustrating.

hilbert42 6mo ago
I keep raising this and I cannot understand why many people can't understand the facts. You're right, it's damn frustrating.

giantg2 6mo ago

Do you have a source?

twsahjklf 6mo ago
Not parent, but after 1 minute of googling: https://historyfacts.com/us-history/fact/the-u-s-government-poisoned-alcohol-during-prohibition/ https://historyfacts.com/us-history/fact/the-u-s-government-... Note that we are talking about industrial alcohol, which was not made for human consumption but could be distilled to make it palatable (before the toxic additives were added).
- giantg2 6mo ago
  They made it sound as if they were poisoning alcohol intended for drinking (looks like it was possibly edited or I missed that it said industrial). Methanol and other additives are still added to most industrial alcohol today.
  - hilbert42 6mo ago
    "Methanol and other additives are still added to most industrial alcohol today." Depends in which country you reside. Where I am the denaturants methanol and pyridine were removed decades ago and replaced with the nontoxic bitterant denatonium.
    - giantg2 6mo ago
      Yeah, the context was in the US.

direwolf20 6mo ago

This is still routinely done to avoid ethanol taxes. It's called "denatured alcohol". Ethanol that has been poisoned is not considered drinkable alcohol, so not subject to the taxes on drinkable alcohol.

general1465 6mo ago
Furthermore denatured alcohol is also flavored in such a way that normal person would throw up on spot how bitter it is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatonium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatonium
- fuzzfactor 6mo ago
  Beyond the recognized "Formulas" such as Formula No. 40-B, there are a number of other "flavors" of denaturants, pages of them starting at section 21.91: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-27/chapter-I/subchapter-A/part-21 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-27/chapter-I/subchapter-A... The only purpose is not to "jeopardize the revenue." In that respect, regardless of the rate being levied, the result on behavior was intended to be very strict and immediate.

refurb 6mo ago

This is still done today if you buy tax free ethanol. The intent is not to poison people, since the alcohol is not intended for consumption.

hilbert42 6mo ago

Aren't morals strange? Governments would rather poison and blind those who would imbibe ethanol when it's prohibited or when they do so without paying excise tax. Morally and ethically such action results in a much worse outcome for society for many reasons. Unfortunately, that's not the view of many or those laws would not have been enacted. Even in our more enlightened times many still hold such punitive beliefs as witnessed by some posts here on HN. It seems to me opinion on whether or not alcoholic beverages ought to be permitted in society has been around so long and yet still remains so divided that the chasm will likely never close. Fortunately, where I live (Australia) the toxic denaturants in ethanol (methanol (~15℅) and pyridine (~3%)) were removed quite some decades ago and replaced with a nontoxic denaturant—the bitterant denatonium. We nevertheless still have a lingering reminder of the past: the once non-potable ethanol was called "Methylated Spirits" and its replacement still is! Nowadays, the methanol and pyridine are gone and what's always been colloquially nicknamed "Metho" is still labeled "Methylated Spirits" but now only consists of 95% ethanol and 5% water—the trace amount of denatonium denaturant isn't even mentioned on the label but it's definitely there. An interesting observation: the old toxic methylated ethanol was emblazoned with the word "POISON" whereas our new Metho sans MeOH is only labeled "CAUTION". BTW, above I mentioned the chasm never closing, whilst writing this my earlier post has oscillated wildly around a net 0, I now have the same number of votes that I started with before posting. Seems opinions are even more divided on this subject than I'd ever imagined (damn shame HN only tallies totals and not both up and down votes).