4 ms·

Nothing would happen, because SCOTUS decided to grant the president immunity for any crime committed in their official function, which would be the case here. I

by 9dev 6mo ago

Nothing would happen, because SCOTUS decided to grant the president immunity for any crime committed in their official function, which would be the case here. It would literally be possible for the president to order congress killed, offer an automatic pardon to anyone carrying out this order, and establish a monarchy. This single ruling will haunt the United States for the rest of its existence.

mandeepj 6mo ago
>SCOTUS decided to grant the president immunity for any crime committed in their official function That ruling is very broad and vague! I don't think killing Congress is part of POTUS's official job description. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-isnt-immune-from-civil-claims-that-his-jan-6-rally-speech-incited-riot-judge-rules https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-isnt-immune-from...
- edmundsauto 6mo ago
  Isn’t the definition of official duties vague and left to the courts?
- solid_fuel 6mo ago
  Neither is fomenting a coup. And yet...
  - bloppe 6mo ago
    Trump was never found immune for that. We was just reelected before the prosecution could run it's course, and the DOJ never prosecutes a sitting president. Presumably the suit could resume once Trump steps down, but it might be wise for his democratic successor to offer him a pardon for the sake of an orderly transition
    - solid_fuel 6mo ago
      > it might be wise for his democratic successor to offer him a pardon for the sake of an orderly transition Oh absolutely not. Any democratic successor that did such a thing would face such an immense backlash from the democratic and centrist voting base that it would effectively throw their entire term away. No, most of the democrats see the pardoning of Nixon as a grave error and want to see justice for what has been done this term.
    - mandeepj 6mo ago
      > offer him a pardon for the sake of an orderly transition Biden’s term just started fine without any transition
- brandensilva 6mo ago
  That's the thing though. Where do you draw the line from the hitman and the one who ordered it legally in their official capacity.
  - mandeepj 6mo ago
    When you've a SCOTUS that can rule: you can't forgive student debt loans but rule an as*hole has a presidential immunity, then we have a problem.
kakacik 6mo ago
It will be interesting to watch what comes next, if there will be next. But people die of natural causes and otherwise anyway. Will it be the same a-lot-of-empty-talk-from-democrats like after first trump's term, or actually some concrete action? Clearly if next president would be democrat he can do some nice revenge and rebalance, maybe petty but maybe necessary. I would expect republicans do the usual crappy move of sticking with theirs regardless of crimes committed, any actual morals are an afterthought. Its so weird to watch from outside, illogical, deeply flawed, unfair, and pretty weak system when it comes to handling unscrupulous sociopaths. All bad is good for some things in hindsight, world desperately needs more decoupling from US. Petrodollars, swift and so on. Compared to this, judging by pure actions, chinese may seem saint in comparison
- hattmall 6mo ago
  The Democrats literally tried like 6 different ways to get Trump in jail, and arrested and jailed many of his supporters and even some of his administration. I highly doubt that the majority of the voting public which elected Trump will sit idle for any sort of unjust retribution to the current administration.
  - solid_fuel 6mo ago
    > sit idle for any sort of unjust retribution This is genuinely hilarious. I guess you haven't been paying attention but "sitting idle during injustice" is all that Trump supporters do. No, his base is already collapsing. He overextended with Iran, sent gas prices up, and as a direct result has finally started to bleed support from the know-nothings. I doubt Trump himself will ever face justice for his many crimes - he is likely to die of old age first - but the rest of the administration? Knives are out. They'll be back in prison just like happened in 2020 and 2021, and all those "dedicated supporters" will do nothing because the people who form this administration are petty, uninteresting people who were specifically chosen because they are not popular.
    - hattmall 6mo ago
      I don't agree with your prediction, the interesting thing is now, perhaps, we can actually wager on the outcomes, I wonder if there is anything on prediction markets about administration officials going to jail. The idea that his support is collapsing is also pretty misstated. Yes, there's a lot of people that don't fully agree with Iran and other things, but that's a far cry from backing his ops. I also think you are missing the shift in politics at all the lower levels to align with the current administration. Outside of the deepest wealthy Democrat areas, and even in some of those, the general position of local politicians and officials is moving towards the sort of nationalist populist attitude Trump has curated. The same is also pervasive among state and federal government institutions with limited exception. And of course that's all only IF Democrats win big in 2028 which is a far from guaranteed outcome.
bloppe 6mo ago
My wondering is more about how Congress would react, because something like this could conceivably bring together the 75% consensus required for a constitutional amendment. And I think even this supreme Court would agree that murdering Congress doesn't count as an official act.

by 9dev 6mo ago

mandeepj 6mo ago

>SCOTUS decided to grant the president immunity for any crime committed in their official function That ruling is very broad and vague! I don't think killing Congress is part of POTUS's official job description. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-isnt-immune-from-civil-claims-that-his-jan-6-rally-speech-incited-riot-judge-rules https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-isnt-immune-from...

edmundsauto 6mo ago
Isn’t the definition of official duties vague and left to the courts?
solid_fuel 6mo ago
Neither is fomenting a coup. And yet...
- bloppe 6mo ago
  Trump was never found immune for that. We was just reelected before the prosecution could run it's course, and the DOJ never prosecutes a sitting president. Presumably the suit could resume once Trump steps down, but it might be wise for his democratic successor to offer him a pardon for the sake of an orderly transition
  - solid_fuel 6mo ago
    > it might be wise for his democratic successor to offer him a pardon for the sake of an orderly transition Oh absolutely not. Any democratic successor that did such a thing would face such an immense backlash from the democratic and centrist voting base that it would effectively throw their entire term away. No, most of the democrats see the pardoning of Nixon as a grave error and want to see justice for what has been done this term.
  - mandeepj 6mo ago
    > offer him a pardon for the sake of an orderly transition Biden’s term just started fine without any transition
brandensilva 6mo ago
That's the thing though. Where do you draw the line from the hitman and the one who ordered it legally in their official capacity.
- mandeepj 6mo ago
  When you've a SCOTUS that can rule: you can't forgive student debt loans but rule an as*hole has a presidential immunity, then we have a problem.

kakacik 6mo ago

It will be interesting to watch what comes next, if there will be next. But people die of natural causes and otherwise anyway. Will it be the same a-lot-of-empty-talk-from-democrats like after first trump's term, or actually some concrete action? Clearly if next president would be democrat he can do some nice revenge and rebalance, maybe petty but maybe necessary. I would expect republicans do the usual crappy move of sticking with theirs regardless of crimes committed, any actual morals are an afterthought. Its so weird to watch from outside, illogical, deeply flawed, unfair, and pretty weak system when it comes to handling unscrupulous sociopaths. All bad is good for some things in hindsight, world desperately needs more decoupling from US. Petrodollars, swift and so on. Compared to this, judging by pure actions, chinese may seem saint in comparison

hattmall 6mo ago
The Democrats literally tried like 6 different ways to get Trump in jail, and arrested and jailed many of his supporters and even some of his administration. I highly doubt that the majority of the voting public which elected Trump will sit idle for any sort of unjust retribution to the current administration.
- solid_fuel 6mo ago
  > sit idle for any sort of unjust retribution This is genuinely hilarious. I guess you haven't been paying attention but "sitting idle during injustice" is all that Trump supporters do. No, his base is already collapsing. He overextended with Iran, sent gas prices up, and as a direct result has finally started to bleed support from the know-nothings. I doubt Trump himself will ever face justice for his many crimes - he is likely to die of old age first - but the rest of the administration? Knives are out. They'll be back in prison just like happened in 2020 and 2021, and all those "dedicated supporters" will do nothing because the people who form this administration are petty, uninteresting people who were specifically chosen because they are not popular.
  - hattmall 6mo ago
    I don't agree with your prediction, the interesting thing is now, perhaps, we can actually wager on the outcomes, I wonder if there is anything on prediction markets about administration officials going to jail. The idea that his support is collapsing is also pretty misstated. Yes, there's a lot of people that don't fully agree with Iran and other things, but that's a far cry from backing his ops. I also think you are missing the shift in politics at all the lower levels to align with the current administration. Outside of the deepest wealthy Democrat areas, and even in some of those, the general position of local politicians and officials is moving towards the sort of nationalist populist attitude Trump has curated. The same is also pervasive among state and federal government institutions with limited exception. And of course that's all only IF Democrats win big in 2028 which is a far from guaranteed outcome.

bloppe 6mo ago

My wondering is more about how Congress would react, because something like this could conceivably bring together the 75% consensus required for a constitutional amendment. And I think even this supreme Court would agree that murdering Congress doesn't count as an official act.