5 ms·

Performative anti-Americanism has become one of the major features of European culture (and especially French culture).

by slibhb 6mo ago

x3ro 6mo ago
What's performative about not wanting to go down with a sinking ship? Or are you under the illusion that the U.S. is doing particularly well right now? It appears that the "we have the bigger stick" strategy is finally meeting some resistance, and I am happy to see it.
- slibhb 6mo ago
  France deciding, in principle, to come up with a plan for not using Microsoft is performative. It stops being performative when they actually do it. At any rate, is there a good reason for France to stop using Microsoft? I'm doubtful. It's a bit like the DoD declaring Anthropic a "supply chain risk"; basically performative. To respond to the rest of your post: while the Trump administration's behavior has diminished US standing in the world, the US is doing well compared to Europe in many important dimensions (e.g. economic growth). Also, far-right parties in Europe seem much more dangerous than the right in the US. But all of that is a side show. European skepticism of the US has its roots in the postwar era. It's fundamentally about resentment. Europe is geopolitically weak and depends on the US for defense which is galling, especially for France with its history as a global power.
  - dopidopHN2 6mo ago
    Defense against who ? Russia ? Or the US ?
  - bigfudge 6mo ago
    > European skepticism of the US has its roots in the postwar era. This is crazy. The Europeans fell hook line and sinker for the line that the US could be trusted to manage security for Europe and would always be a dependable ally. That suited everyone — Europe because we could focus spending on post war reconstruction, and the US because you made a shit tonne of money by being the world's arms dealer and policeman. There was no resentment of the US. Europe was in love with US culture (weird French cinema rules aside). And especially Eastern Europe... who have now had the hardest of all disillusionments. This administration has destroyed the goodwill and trust built up over 80 years, and the economic foundation which made you rich and powerful. Let's check back in 30 years and see if that was a good idea. I'm hopeful that French nukes and Ukrainian ingenuity (and MAGA incompetence) will see us through the next 10-15 years of transition as re right the past mistake of trusting the US.
    - overfeed 6mo ago
      > The Europeans fell hook line and sinker for the line that the US could be trusted to manage security for Europe and would always be a dependable ally. Charles de Gaulle didn't fall for it! I used to think he was an arrogant crank, but Trump has proven he was right all along to be critical of the US.
  - vrganj 6mo ago
    You must live in a different reality from me. The EU has closed trade deals with India and Mercosur this year alone, recentering the global economy around itself. Meanwhile, the resentment seems to radiate from the White House as they increasingly realize how their moves are making them irrelevant on the global stage. We're not upset. We just don't think you matter anymore.
    - drnick1 6mo ago
      > recentering the global economy around itself. Wishful thinking.
      - pessimizer 6mo ago
        Wishful to the point of delusion. Europe is a stagnant backwater in a deep energy crisis that's about to get significantly deeper, and comforts itself on an completely unearned sense of moral superiority that it can't feed itself with. This is also a self-inflicted wound. There's no reason that Europe should be in the situation that it is in other than it is run by elites that are, like everyone else, invested in the success of US companies, and have no particular loyalty to Europe. When they retire, they move to the US and get board seats, advisory positions, lobbyist jobs, and cushy university spots. Europeans need to start engaging in rational thinking and to stop letting their politics revolve around zombie US institutions (like NATO) and electing functionaries from tiny little countries who have made an industry of covertly advocating for US interests in Europe. They also need to seriously rethink their relationships with Russia and China, and realize that when it comes to Russia, they were the bad guys so destroying their economies and futures over manufactured grudges and fantasies of invasion is an indulgence that their children can't afford. Independence from the US means getting rid of their elites that work for the US, and getting rid of victimhood narratives about Russia (who at least occupied part of Europe) and China (who have never done a thing to them.) They should make BRICS EBRICS. If Europe doesn't wise up, they're just going to start killing each other. Thank God that France has nukes and can't be invaded again.
        8note 6mo ago
  - Rexxar 6mo ago
    There is already 100000 workstations in a branch of the police with this Linux distribution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GendBuntu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GendBuntu It's not performative.
  - noir_lord 6mo ago
    > Also, far-right parties in Europe seem much more dangerous than the right in the US. Our far right parties are dangerous because they might get elected at some point, US far right parties are dangerous because they already did.
- stephen_g 6mo ago
  I mean it’s not just that, the current administration have destroyed a bunch of the US’s oldest and most important alliances… I’m not in Europe but in another allied country, the feeling amongst people here is that the US is not able to be trusted as a partner anymore. And with ways the Government can apply pressure to US companies (CLOUD Act etc.) that extends to IS companies too.
  - coliveira 6mo ago
    It's not the current administration that started this process. The US has for decades gone against the Europeans, step after step, asserting policies that only favor US companies. In the past however, the US administrations sugarcoated this fact with the language of cooperation. The current US government is now laying bare the fact that they're creating a political system where all technology and resources are controlled by the US and their "allies" are mere observers that should not do anything about it.
    - oaiey 6mo ago
      This. This is something which the current administration does not understand. We Europeans have done what Washington says for 80 years. We are behaving like a colony. We let the US have bases here, we follow their economical model, the petro dollar and let them suck the wealth out of Europe. You want military bases on Greenland: ask friendly, we already said yes in the 50s. You want overflight rights for your wars: we give them to you since 80 years. You wanted access to our fibers. Oh let us help you with that. It is the deal and the tone. You gave us security and let us participate in prosperity. You acted friendly. Trust, security and tone is replaced by bullying. Why should we continue to bend over?
      - gunsle 6mo ago
        You guys have to bend over because you willfully sold out your constituents and dissolved competition in the name of anti racism gloablism. You guys could have had the same thriving tech sector anyone else does. There’s no conspiracy to keep you guys down. You do that to yourself, while simultaneously waxing poetic about how much better you are than Americans with your social programs. Well turns out you can either have your guaranteed social programs where no one ever has to truly work hard, or you can have economic growth. You guys made your choice 30+ years ago, you only have yourselves to blame.
- YZF 6mo ago
  Well said on the site of Y-Combinator. A US company ran by Americans that mostly funds startups in the US. Clearly the US, the home of Apple, nVidia, Anthropic, Open AI, SpaceX, Google, Meta, Amazon, Tesla etc. is sinking while the EU the home of (? ... well, there is ASML) is going to be running the world. Linus works on Linux from ... Portland, Oregon. And oh, look at where Linux contributions are coming from: https://insights.linuxfoundation.org/project/korg/contributors?timeRange=past365days&start=2025-04-11&end=2026-04-11&widget=geographical-distribution https://insights.linuxfoundation.org/project/korg/contributo... EU's GDP is so catching up with the US: https://econofact.org/factbrief/fact-check-has-the-economic-gap-between-europe-and-the-united-states-increased-in-the-past-decade https://econofact.org/factbrief/fact-check-has-the-economic-... NOT
  - x3ro 6mo ago
    Yes exactly, just like the.. uhm.. the British Empire could not have possibly declined? Your point is that, because the U.S. has big companies and wealth, it can't be a sinking ship? Because to me this seems like a straw-man. What I'm saying is that the U.S. is currently in decline, and many will agree with me. Where this leads your (I'm assuming) country, nobody knows. But to me, it doesn't look great.
    - YZF 6mo ago
      I'm not American. But I guess I feel part of the US led western world order. The US has big companies and wealth because it has the right ecosystem to create those. The US is in decline is a meme. Decline can't be measured over short intervals. Maybe it is maybe it isn't. We'll see in 5 decades. One thing I'm pretty sure about is that this decline of the US that many seem to be excited for and wishing here, if or when it happens, is not going to end well for most of those people. Another way of saying this is that most of the people commenting here have benefited and still benefit from the dominance of the US and the technology and innovation coming out of it, including Y Combinator. What is the long term strategic thinking behind "let's attack the US and make it fail" -> the answer is none. It should be in the interest of most of us to see more US success. We whine as everything around us is an outcome of that success. Warren Buffet's "Never bet against America" still very much holds in my opinion.
- will4274 6mo ago
  In 2025, USA GDP grew by 2.0%. In 2025, EU GDP grew by 1.5%. Government spending (a proxy for government power) is a fraction of GDP, usually between 10% of GDP and 30% of GDP. So, while the US may not be doing particularly well right now, it's still doing better than Europe.
dopidopHN2 6mo ago
Its moving the needle. There is a lot to be done but its moving
bigfudge 6mo ago
The French are just (wonderfully) arrogant enough to say what everyone else is thinking. The UK will likely be too spineless to actually follow through, but the Germans and Eastern Europeans are not going to tolerate the level of exposure we all have to US craziness any longer.
- will4274 6mo ago
  The French are just arrogant enough to believe themselves major players on the world stage.
- 8note 6mo ago
  to be fair, its canada thats knly part french thats saying what everyone is thinking nowadays
vrganj 6mo ago
As a European, the Anti-Americanism is not performative. It's a deep disconnect in values, brought to the forefront by the current administration and the oligarchs running wild. America used to be seen as an example, the big brother watching out for us. Now it's a cautionary tale of greed, hubris and societal decay, as well as an increasingly antagonistic actor of global instability. Y'all ruined your reputation and the fact you're trying to pin that on us is just another example of said hubris. Until you at least own up to it, there's no viable path to recovery.
- slibhb 6mo ago
  It's mostly performative, and posts like this prove the point.
  - vrganj 6mo ago
    Meanwhile, I believe your post proves my point. Funny how perspective works, isn't it? It feels like the last tantrum of a dying empire from our vantage point. Sad, but ultimately irrelevant.
    - slibhb 6mo ago
      I see one person having a tantrum in this thread (and it's not me).
      - vrganj 6mo ago
        Yet again, you are vocalizing my exact thoughts. Feels like the disconnect I described is real, doesn't it? Might not be performative after all then...
      - monkey_monkey 6mo ago
        Does feel like it's you though.
      - maest 6mo ago
        "Tantrum" is a choice word.
bertil 6mo ago
Some big moneyed interests are trying to split Europe and the US. The current US administration is definitely not helping, but every ad I see on the Reddit main feed is a blatant attack on the relation, from brand new subreddits, pointing at magazines I’ve never heard about before. I’ve been reporting them, but it keeps coming, from constantly different sources, different names, subreddits, but always the same vague but incredible incredibly provocative titles I suspect that some social-media-addled senior US officials are being fed the same crap because their reactions to non-existent European reaction are not grounded in reality.
- sveme 6mo ago
  Trump is all that‘s needed for that. The Greenland saga alone was sufficient. And then he attacked Iran.
  - bertil 6mo ago
    Trump is too cheap to have paid for those ads.
    - petre 6mo ago
      He's probably an instrument of those interests as well. 'We'll prop up this crazy narcissistic bully and the suckers are gonna vote for him, mainly because Biden has been a disaster. Then he'll put other idiots in charge, go after the EU and Iran just because and make us piles of cash in the process.'.
- overfeed 6mo ago
  > Some big moneyed interests are trying to split Europe and the US. The current US administration is definitely not helping Did you listen/read Vance's recent speeches in Hungary? Or read the US policy document put out months back? It goes way beyond merely "not helping" - the US administration is in turns provoking, alienating and separating itself from center/center-left European governments in pursuit of exporting extremist partisan politics in the hopes of getting far-right governments elected across Europe. European citizens and politicians everywhere can see the actions for what they are. What was that about Greenland and annexing Canada? There's no big-money conspiracy, just a bully administration with no sense of second-and third-order effects.

Performative anti-Americanism has become one of the major features of European culture (and especially French culture).

by slibhb 6mo ago

Performative anti-Americanism has become one of the major features of European culture (and especially French culture).

x3ro 6mo ago

What's performative about not wanting to go down with a sinking ship? Or are you under the illusion that the U.S. is doing particularly well right now? It appears that the "we have the bigger stick" strategy is finally meeting some resistance, and I am happy to see it.

slibhb 6mo ago
France deciding, in principle, to come up with a plan for not using Microsoft is performative. It stops being performative when they actually do it. At any rate, is there a good reason for France to stop using Microsoft? I'm doubtful. It's a bit like the DoD declaring Anthropic a "supply chain risk"; basically performative. To respond to the rest of your post: while the Trump administration's behavior has diminished US standing in the world, the US is doing well compared to Europe in many important dimensions (e.g. economic growth). Also, far-right parties in Europe seem much more dangerous than the right in the US. But all of that is a side show. European skepticism of the US has its roots in the postwar era. It's fundamentally about resentment. Europe is geopolitically weak and depends on the US for defense which is galling, especially for France with its history as a global power.
- dopidopHN2 6mo ago
  Defense against who ? Russia ? Or the US ?
- bigfudge 6mo ago
  > European skepticism of the US has its roots in the postwar era. This is crazy. The Europeans fell hook line and sinker for the line that the US could be trusted to manage security for Europe and would always be a dependable ally. That suited everyone — Europe because we could focus spending on post war reconstruction, and the US because you made a shit tonne of money by being the world's arms dealer and policeman. There was no resentment of the US. Europe was in love with US culture (weird French cinema rules aside). And especially Eastern Europe... who have now had the hardest of all disillusionments. This administration has destroyed the goodwill and trust built up over 80 years, and the economic foundation which made you rich and powerful. Let's check back in 30 years and see if that was a good idea. I'm hopeful that French nukes and Ukrainian ingenuity (and MAGA incompetence) will see us through the next 10-15 years of transition as re right the past mistake of trusting the US.
  - overfeed 6mo ago
    > The Europeans fell hook line and sinker for the line that the US could be trusted to manage security for Europe and would always be a dependable ally. Charles de Gaulle didn't fall for it! I used to think he was an arrogant crank, but Trump has proven he was right all along to be critical of the US.
- vrganj 6mo ago
  You must live in a different reality from me. The EU has closed trade deals with India and Mercosur this year alone, recentering the global economy around itself. Meanwhile, the resentment seems to radiate from the White House as they increasingly realize how their moves are making them irrelevant on the global stage. We're not upset. We just don't think you matter anymore.
  - drnick1 6mo ago
    > recentering the global economy around itself. Wishful thinking.
    - pessimizer 6mo ago
      Wishful to the point of delusion. Europe is a stagnant backwater in a deep energy crisis that's about to get significantly deeper, and comforts itself on an completely unearned sense of moral superiority that it can't feed itself with. This is also a self-inflicted wound. There's no reason that Europe should be in the situation that it is in other than it is run by elites that are, like everyone else, invested in the success of US companies, and have no particular loyalty to Europe. When they retire, they move to the US and get board seats, advisory positions, lobbyist jobs, and cushy university spots. Europeans need to start engaging in rational thinking and to stop letting their politics revolve around zombie US institutions (like NATO) and electing functionaries from tiny little countries who have made an industry of covertly advocating for US interests in Europe. They also need to seriously rethink their relationships with Russia and China, and realize that when it comes to Russia, they were the bad guys so destroying their economies and futures over manufactured grudges and fantasies of invasion is an indulgence that their children can't afford. Independence from the US means getting rid of their elites that work for the US, and getting rid of victimhood narratives about Russia (who at least occupied part of Europe) and China (who have never done a thing to them.) They should make BRICS EBRICS. If Europe doesn't wise up, they're just going to start killing each other. Thank God that France has nukes and can't be invaded again.
      - 8note 6mo ago
- Rexxar 6mo ago
  There is already 100000 workstations in a branch of the police with this Linux distribution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GendBuntu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GendBuntu It's not performative.
- noir_lord 6mo ago
  > Also, far-right parties in Europe seem much more dangerous than the right in the US. Our far right parties are dangerous because they might get elected at some point, US far right parties are dangerous because they already did.
stephen_g 6mo ago
I mean it’s not just that, the current administration have destroyed a bunch of the US’s oldest and most important alliances… I’m not in Europe but in another allied country, the feeling amongst people here is that the US is not able to be trusted as a partner anymore. And with ways the Government can apply pressure to US companies (CLOUD Act etc.) that extends to IS companies too.
- coliveira 6mo ago
  It's not the current administration that started this process. The US has for decades gone against the Europeans, step after step, asserting policies that only favor US companies. In the past however, the US administrations sugarcoated this fact with the language of cooperation. The current US government is now laying bare the fact that they're creating a political system where all technology and resources are controlled by the US and their "allies" are mere observers that should not do anything about it.
  - oaiey 6mo ago
    This. This is something which the current administration does not understand. We Europeans have done what Washington says for 80 years. We are behaving like a colony. We let the US have bases here, we follow their economical model, the petro dollar and let them suck the wealth out of Europe. You want military bases on Greenland: ask friendly, we already said yes in the 50s. You want overflight rights for your wars: we give them to you since 80 years. You wanted access to our fibers. Oh let us help you with that. It is the deal and the tone. You gave us security and let us participate in prosperity. You acted friendly. Trust, security and tone is replaced by bullying. Why should we continue to bend over?
    - gunsle 6mo ago
      You guys have to bend over because you willfully sold out your constituents and dissolved competition in the name of anti racism gloablism. You guys could have had the same thriving tech sector anyone else does. There’s no conspiracy to keep you guys down. You do that to yourself, while simultaneously waxing poetic about how much better you are than Americans with your social programs. Well turns out you can either have your guaranteed social programs where no one ever has to truly work hard, or you can have economic growth. You guys made your choice 30+ years ago, you only have yourselves to blame.
YZF 6mo ago
Well said on the site of Y-Combinator. A US company ran by Americans that mostly funds startups in the US. Clearly the US, the home of Apple, nVidia, Anthropic, Open AI, SpaceX, Google, Meta, Amazon, Tesla etc. is sinking while the EU the home of (? ... well, there is ASML) is going to be running the world. Linus works on Linux from ... Portland, Oregon. And oh, look at where Linux contributions are coming from: https://insights.linuxfoundation.org/project/korg/contributors?timeRange=past365days&start=2025-04-11&end=2026-04-11&widget=geographical-distribution https://insights.linuxfoundation.org/project/korg/contributo... EU's GDP is so catching up with the US: https://econofact.org/factbrief/fact-check-has-the-economic-gap-between-europe-and-the-united-states-increased-in-the-past-decade https://econofact.org/factbrief/fact-check-has-the-economic-... NOT
- x3ro 6mo ago
  Yes exactly, just like the.. uhm.. the British Empire could not have possibly declined? Your point is that, because the U.S. has big companies and wealth, it can't be a sinking ship? Because to me this seems like a straw-man. What I'm saying is that the U.S. is currently in decline, and many will agree with me. Where this leads your (I'm assuming) country, nobody knows. But to me, it doesn't look great.
  - YZF 6mo ago
    I'm not American. But I guess I feel part of the US led western world order. The US has big companies and wealth because it has the right ecosystem to create those. The US is in decline is a meme. Decline can't be measured over short intervals. Maybe it is maybe it isn't. We'll see in 5 decades. One thing I'm pretty sure about is that this decline of the US that many seem to be excited for and wishing here, if or when it happens, is not going to end well for most of those people. Another way of saying this is that most of the people commenting here have benefited and still benefit from the dominance of the US and the technology and innovation coming out of it, including Y Combinator. What is the long term strategic thinking behind "let's attack the US and make it fail" -> the answer is none. It should be in the interest of most of us to see more US success. We whine as everything around us is an outcome of that success. Warren Buffet's "Never bet against America" still very much holds in my opinion.
will4274 6mo ago
In 2025, USA GDP grew by 2.0%. In 2025, EU GDP grew by 1.5%. Government spending (a proxy for government power) is a fraction of GDP, usually between 10% of GDP and 30% of GDP. So, while the US may not be doing particularly well right now, it's still doing better than Europe.

dopidopHN2 6mo ago

Its moving the needle. There is a lot to be done but its moving

bigfudge 6mo ago

The French are just (wonderfully) arrogant enough to say what everyone else is thinking. The UK will likely be too spineless to actually follow through, but the Germans and Eastern Europeans are not going to tolerate the level of exposure we all have to US craziness any longer.

will4274 6mo ago
The French are just arrogant enough to believe themselves major players on the world stage.
8note 6mo ago
to be fair, its canada thats knly part french thats saying what everyone is thinking nowadays

vrganj 6mo ago

As a European, the Anti-Americanism is not performative. It's a deep disconnect in values, brought to the forefront by the current administration and the oligarchs running wild. America used to be seen as an example, the big brother watching out for us. Now it's a cautionary tale of greed, hubris and societal decay, as well as an increasingly antagonistic actor of global instability. Y'all ruined your reputation and the fact you're trying to pin that on us is just another example of said hubris. Until you at least own up to it, there's no viable path to recovery.

slibhb 6mo ago
It's mostly performative, and posts like this prove the point.
- vrganj 6mo ago
  Meanwhile, I believe your post proves my point. Funny how perspective works, isn't it? It feels like the last tantrum of a dying empire from our vantage point. Sad, but ultimately irrelevant.
  - slibhb 6mo ago
    I see one person having a tantrum in this thread (and it's not me).
    - vrganj 6mo ago
      Yet again, you are vocalizing my exact thoughts. Feels like the disconnect I described is real, doesn't it? Might not be performative after all then...
    - monkey_monkey 6mo ago
      Does feel like it's you though.
    - maest 6mo ago
      "Tantrum" is a choice word.

bertil 6mo ago

Some big moneyed interests are trying to split Europe and the US. The current US administration is definitely not helping, but every ad I see on the Reddit main feed is a blatant attack on the relation, from brand new subreddits, pointing at magazines I’ve never heard about before. I’ve been reporting them, but it keeps coming, from constantly different sources, different names, subreddits, but always the same vague but incredible incredibly provocative titles I suspect that some social-media-addled senior US officials are being fed the same crap because their reactions to non-existent European reaction are not grounded in reality.

sveme 6mo ago
Trump is all that‘s needed for that. The Greenland saga alone was sufficient. And then he attacked Iran.
- bertil 6mo ago
  Trump is too cheap to have paid for those ads.
  - petre 6mo ago
    He's probably an instrument of those interests as well. 'We'll prop up this crazy narcissistic bully and the suckers are gonna vote for him, mainly because Biden has been a disaster. Then he'll put other idiots in charge, go after the EU and Iran just because and make us piles of cash in the process.'.
overfeed 6mo ago
> Some big moneyed interests are trying to split Europe and the US. The current US administration is definitely not helping Did you listen/read Vance's recent speeches in Hungary? Or read the US policy document put out months back? It goes way beyond merely "not helping" - the US administration is in turns provoking, alienating and separating itself from center/center-left European governments in pursuit of exporting extremist partisan politics in the hopes of getting far-right governments elected across Europe. European citizens and politicians everywhere can see the actions for what they are. What was that about Greenland and annexing Canada? There's no big-money conspiracy, just a bully administration with no sense of second-and third-order effects.