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There is no universe where any pardon is abolished unless there is a massive political shakeup. The entrenched political class is terrified of endangering thei
by b00ty4breakfast 6mo ago
There is no universe where any pardon is abolished unless there is a massive political shakeup. The entrenched political class is terrified of endangering their power and privilege even if individual players are ready to do it.
- bloppe 6mo agoI've often wondered what would happen if a president explicitly offers to pardon anybody who murders members of Congress. Would they settle on reigning in the pardon power with an amendment? We're sort of already there. A lot of the Jan 6 rioters were openly trying to murder congressmen. The fact they weren't successful isn't super reassuring.
- aexer0e 6mo agoPardons only stop the federal government from prosecuting someone, the states would still go after those individuals
- dawnerd 6mo agoAnd in theory a future administration could do something like threaten to withhold funding to states that don’t prosecute.
- Spooky23 6mo agoDon’t worry, Trump 47 already thought of this, specifically threatening a state until the governor pardoned someone. https://www.democracydocket.com/news-alerts/trump-threatened-colorado-funding-as-punishment-over-tina-peters-judge-finds/ https://www.democracydocket.com/news-alerts/trump-threatened...
- dawnerd 6mo agoYep exactly, goes both ways.
- didgetmaster 6mo agoLike most political arguments, if you listen carefully; those who advocate for or against pardons, only want them to go one way. A pardon is only a protection against a 'vengeful administration' if that administration is not your party. Pardons are only a miscarriage of justice if those pardoned don't share your ideology.
- krapp 6mo agoI'm a leftist, and a Democrat by necessity (not by choice) and I would be fine if the power of pardon was removed for Presidents who share my ideology. I would rather have working separation of powers and reform the justice system than give one person carte blanche power to nullify it based on their whim. Not everyone making a political argument is engaging in cynical tribalism. Believe it or not, some people do actually believe in things.
- didgetmaster 6mo agoWho exactly 'forced' you to become a Democrat? If that were real, I'm pretty sure it would have made the news.
- bdangubic 6mo agowhen you have only two choices and you have to be quite insane to choose one of them, you are, for all intents and purposes, forced to choose the other side (same argument works for left and right if you hear someone say they are forced to be what they are politically)
- krapp 6mo agoI never claimed that anyone forced me to become a Democrat. I support them at the national level because they're the least evil of the two and exactly two relevant options available, and the one which at least gives lip service to progressive values. But that is still like supporting Mussolini over Hitler. Locally I vote third party when I have a chance. And I live in Texas so none of my votes matter anyway.
- 9dev 6mo agoNothing would happen, because SCOTUS decided to grant the president immunity for any crime committed in their official function, which would be the case here. It would literally be possible for the president to order congress killed, offer an automatic pardon to anyone carrying out this order, and establish a monarchy. This single ruling will haunt the United States for the rest of its existence.
- mandeepj 6mo ago>SCOTUS decided to grant the president immunity for any crime committed in their official function That ruling is very broad and vague! I don't think killing Congress is part of POTUS's official job description. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-isnt-immune-from-civil-claims-that-his-jan-6-rally-speech-incited-riot-judge-rules https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-isnt-immune-from...
- edmundsauto 6mo agoIsn’t the definition of official duties vague and left to the courts?
- solid_fuel 6mo agoNeither is fomenting a coup. And yet...
- bloppe 6mo agoTrump was never found immune for that. We was just reelected before the prosecution could run it's course, and the DOJ never prosecutes a sitting president. Presumably the suit could resume once Trump steps down, but it might be wise for his democratic successor to offer him a pardon for the sake of an orderly transition
- solid_fuel 6mo ago> it might be wise for his democratic successor to offer him a pardon for the sake of an orderly transition Oh absolutely not. Any democratic successor that did such a thing would face such an immense backlash from the democratic and centrist voting base that it would effectively throw their entire term away. No, most of the democrats see the pardoning of Nixon as a grave error and want to see justice for what has been done this term.
- jibal 6mo agoCongress can propose amendments but it takes 3/4 of the states to ratify them.
- pfannkuchen 6mo ago> were openly trying to murder congressmen Is there evidence of this? This is one of those things where I’d love to get on board with the popular view but I haven’t found evidence that anything beyond a sit in was intended and the arguments seem to be floating in air if you follow them down to their root. But I haven’t done that much research so I’d appreciate if you could share what makes you think this, thanks!
- robot-wrangler 6mo agohttps://apnews.com/article/us-capitol-attack-14c73ee280c256ab4ec193ac0f49ad54 https://apnews.com/article/us-capitol-attack-14c73ee280c256a...