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But to really reach the poor people, you would also need to deploy phones, not only data/traffic/WiFi: For sure for lot of people 10-20 USD monthly bill is alre

But to really reach the poor people, you would also need to deploy phones, not only data/traffic/WiFi: For sure for lot of people 10-20 USD monthly bill is already too high, but buying a phone that is somehow not outdated and capable of running all the apps needed, this is a much higher barrier (of lets say 200-300 USD for a somehow solid phone that will last some time9

gbear605 6mo ago
Phones can be had for a lot less than that - you can find decent enough used phones that will last a year or two for under $100, which is cheap enough that almost everyone can scrounge together the money for it.
- oofbey 6mo ago
  I’m guessing you’ve never been poor. For people living in poverty, finding $100 for a one time purchase is extremely difficult - much more than say finding $10 per month. Finance options are notoriously predatory and expensive. Plus if it only lasts a year then the amortized cost is about the same as the hypothetical cheap service.
  - KellyCriterion 6mo ago
    Thanks! Exactly, this is what I was trying to tell: Its the barrier of accumulating the "once a time payment" in that volume, because methods for savings are not applied (for several reasons, unregular income, too low income, debt, drugs etc.)
  - gbear605 6mo ago
    By “under $100”, I meant that there are options at $20. Yes, you can get a smartphone for twenty bucks. I agree that there are some people who can’t even find $20 to get a smartphone, but they’re going to be a small minority of even the very poor.
roughly 6mo ago
A weird part about the modern world is that a cell phone is incredibly cheap compared to shelter, food, or just about anything else. You’d be surprised how many homeless folks have phones.
Ray20 6mo ago
> of lets say 200-300 USD for a somehow solid phone More like 30-50 USD, judging by the research I did in 5 minutes (or 20-30 USD if you agree to a used phone). No, I understand that Americans love to pay several times more for their houses, healthcare, education, coffee and everything else simply on principle, pretending that there are no other options, but you can literally google the largest phone manufacturers in the world and look at the prices of their current starter models. And yes, we are talking about full-fledged smartphones that are quite pleasant to use, with up-to-date hardware and the latest versions of the operating system. Not some outdated torture devices with zero reliability.
- KellyCriterion 6mo ago
  > google the largest phone manufacturers in the world and look at the prices of their current starter models. for most people at the very low end of low income and low education group, this is a huge barrier. Look: I haven been neighbours with people who had to search their whole appartment for a working simple pen to take a note - when asking for it they looked at me like an Alien: Really poor and uneducated people have high barriers in even the simpelst things.
  - Ray20 6mo ago
    > for a working simple pen to take a note Well, I guess this means that they have successfully solved their smartphone availability problem. Otherwise, note taking tasks with a pen would be more important for them.
  - tredre3 6mo ago
    Nobody is saying that the price of the phone isn't a barrier. What people are trying to tell you is that there's no need to lie about that price. If anything, using the real price makes it even more illustrative of how much being poor sucks! Sure, phone choices in America are very limited compared to most of the world. But just go to walmart.com, seach for prepaid android and choose "New" condition. You'll see mainly entry level Motorola and Samsung offerings ranging from 40 to 200.
- deleted 6mo ago
smugma 6mo ago
In SF, I commonly see homeless people with cell phones
- Terr_ 6mo ago
  That may say more about needs than affordability.
  - philipallstar 6mo ago
    It's clearly affordable if it can be afforded. Otherwise nothing is affordable.
    - Terr_ 6mo ago
      What I mean is that there are different needs and constraints on different users. Some homeless folks need a smartphone more than, say, retirees. It also affects what would normally be considered "inferior goods" in economics. If someone is camp-in-the-bushes homeless, they can't really "save money" by having an old laptop instead. Being able to carry it with you is more of a requirement than a convenience.
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
- timoshishi 6mo ago
  California provides free phones and phone service to those who qualify through the California Lifeline program
anigbrowl 6mo ago
I am using an 8 year old phone that was mid when I bought it for ~$300 or so new. It's only in the last year that I've begun to find it annoyingly slow. Now I prefer using an actual computer for most things and only rely on the phone for messaging and maps when I'm out and about (plus some lightweight web browsing) but my point is that mediocre actually works fine. I have hardly any apps on it, if there isn't a web interface I don't need to interact with it.

gbear605 6mo ago

Phones can be had for a lot less than that - you can find decent enough used phones that will last a year or two for under $100, which is cheap enough that almost everyone can scrounge together the money for it.

oofbey 6mo ago
I’m guessing you’ve never been poor. For people living in poverty, finding $100 for a one time purchase is extremely difficult - much more than say finding $10 per month. Finance options are notoriously predatory and expensive. Plus if it only lasts a year then the amortized cost is about the same as the hypothetical cheap service.
- KellyCriterion 6mo ago
  Thanks! Exactly, this is what I was trying to tell: Its the barrier of accumulating the "once a time payment" in that volume, because methods for savings are not applied (for several reasons, unregular income, too low income, debt, drugs etc.)
- gbear605 6mo ago
  By “under $100”, I meant that there are options at $20. Yes, you can get a smartphone for twenty bucks. I agree that there are some people who can’t even find $20 to get a smartphone, but they’re going to be a small minority of even the very poor.

roughly 6mo ago

A weird part about the modern world is that a cell phone is incredibly cheap compared to shelter, food, or just about anything else. You’d be surprised how many homeless folks have phones.

Ray20 6mo ago

> of lets say 200-300 USD for a somehow solid phone More like 30-50 USD, judging by the research I did in 5 minutes (or 20-30 USD if you agree to a used phone). No, I understand that Americans love to pay several times more for their houses, healthcare, education, coffee and everything else simply on principle, pretending that there are no other options, but you can literally google the largest phone manufacturers in the world and look at the prices of their current starter models. And yes, we are talking about full-fledged smartphones that are quite pleasant to use, with up-to-date hardware and the latest versions of the operating system. Not some outdated torture devices with zero reliability.

KellyCriterion 6mo ago
> google the largest phone manufacturers in the world and look at the prices of their current starter models. for most people at the very low end of low income and low education group, this is a huge barrier. Look: I haven been neighbours with people who had to search their whole appartment for a working simple pen to take a note - when asking for it they looked at me like an Alien: Really poor and uneducated people have high barriers in even the simpelst things.
- Ray20 6mo ago
  > for a working simple pen to take a note Well, I guess this means that they have successfully solved their smartphone availability problem. Otherwise, note taking tasks with a pen would be more important for them.
- tredre3 6mo ago
  Nobody is saying that the price of the phone isn't a barrier. What people are trying to tell you is that there's no need to lie about that price. If anything, using the real price makes it even more illustrative of how much being poor sucks! Sure, phone choices in America are very limited compared to most of the world. But just go to walmart.com, seach for prepaid android and choose "New" condition. You'll see mainly entry level Motorola and Samsung offerings ranging from 40 to 200.
deleted 6mo ago

smugma 6mo ago

In SF, I commonly see homeless people with cell phones

Terr_ 6mo ago
That may say more about needs than affordability.
- philipallstar 6mo ago
  It's clearly affordable if it can be afforded. Otherwise nothing is affordable.
  - Terr_ 6mo ago
    What I mean is that there are different needs and constraints on different users. Some homeless folks need a smartphone more than, say, retirees. It also affects what would normally be considered "inferior goods" in economics. If someone is camp-in-the-bushes homeless, they can't really "save money" by having an old laptop instead. Being able to carry it with you is more of a requirement than a convenience.
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
timoshishi 6mo ago
California provides free phones and phone service to those who qualify through the California Lifeline program

anigbrowl 6mo ago

I am using an 8 year old phone that was mid when I bought it for ~$300 or so new. It's only in the last year that I've begun to find it annoyingly slow. Now I prefer using an actual computer for most things and only rely on the phone for messaging and maps when I'm out and about (plus some lightweight web browsing) but my point is that mediocre actually works fine. I have hardly any apps on it, if there isn't a web interface I don't need to interact with it.