4 ms·

The amount of damage to tires is proportional to the fourth power of the weight per axel. That means that for the same journey, a bike sheds (3000 kg / 80 kg)ˆ4

by bertil 6mo ago

The amount of damage to tires is proportional to the fourth power of the weight per axel. That means that for the same journey, a bike sheds (3000 kg / 80 kg)ˆ4 so about 20 million times less. Assuming that the rubber is the same—and not that it has proprietary chemistry that may or may not contain carcinogens. Eight orders of magnitude of difference feels relevant. Almost every train I know use metal wheels. We can look at the few that don’t, but something tells me people who raise that argument don’t want to look at alternative wheel composition, but rather hope to seed doubt and, in private, lobby replace one metro with thousands of cars, and I’m not sure that’s a good idea. So, please, don’t come in here with that bullshit.

alt227 6mo ago
Lovely tone, you sound like a really nice person. I never mentioned train wheels at all. Their brake pads are made from things like carbon, ceramic, and resin compounds. These wear down like any brake pads and so cause the same dust pollution. Remember that some trains in the world are over a mile long and have over 1000 wheels. I dont see anybody claiming that bikes or trains cause anywhere near the same level as cars, but it is important to remember that they still do cause some and so they are not a silver bullet. Solutions still need advancing in order to completely remove these pollutants from human transportation systems.
- bertil 6mo ago
  > Im sure bikes and trains are too. > … for tyres and brakes You are welcome to edit your comment to clarify.
  - alt227 6mo ago
    No need, it is correct. Bikes have tyre pollution, and trains have brake pollution. Seems like a pretty simple statement to me. Interesting that you have moved from arguing the point into semantics now without addressing anything else. You are welcome to remove your downvotes. People seem to get very upset when others point out that transport like bikes and trains still cause the same pollution as cars. yes it is much less, possibly orders of magnitude so, but they still cause it. Perhaps instead of getting the pitchforks out we could work together to find better wheel and brake solutions for all transpotation methods which dont cause so much toxic dust.
    - dijit 6mo ago
      You can't downvote direct replies.
      - alt227 6mo ago
        [flagged]
        bertil 6mo ago
        You really don’t like factual replies, do you?
        alt227 6mo ago
        I would prefer to keep on topic and discuss the original points personally, but it seems people keep trying to derail into berating each other, commenting on peoples behavoir and pointing out forum rules. Seems strange to me but I get dragged in all the same. Is it not factual that trains have brake pads which wear down and cause carcenogenic micro dust? Seems I made that factual point and it was ignored in favour of criticisizing my semantics and stating obvious site rules.
        bertil 6mo ago
        > Seems strange to me but I get dragged in all the same. Maybe it‘s a you thing? > Is it not factual that trains have brake pads which wear down and cause carcenogenic micro dust? Not a point I have contested, but yet another suggestion without any sense of scale, and so far you have refused to address that aspect of five or six replies on the topic. Maybe that’s why you are inviting so much hostility?
        alt227 6mo ago
        > yet another suggestion without any sense of scale > Maybe that’s why you are inviting so much hostility? If you are somebody who resorts to hostility just because somebody puts forward an argument without full explanation and rationale, then you have my sympathies. Looking at your other replies in the thread and what other people are replying to you, it seems that you are either a really hostile person or just having a really bad day. I hope it is the latter for your own sake. Like others I wish you well and hope that you can find peace without having to engage in mud sliging against anonymous people on the internet.
- dijit 6mo ago
  'Bikes cause it too' is technically true in the way that a dripping tap and a burst dam both cause flooding. The effect of this framing (intentional or not) is to suggest we shouldn't prioritise the thing that causes 99.99% of the problem until we've solved the thing that causes 0.01%. That's not a serious position, you're just protecting your comfort.
  - alt227 6mo ago
    Have you ever seen the damage a dripping tap can do? I have seen houses completely wrecked by it. Stop protecting your argument by trying to say something small doesnt matter. It all matters, regardless of size. If the argument is that microplastics are harmful to health, surely we should be looking at all sources of them instead of just the biggest? My argument is 'Lets try to make all vehicle tyres and brakes from something that doesnt pollute the earth and harm animal life on it.' Yours seems to be 'Lets ignore the plastic pollution from other transport because cars cause the most, so thats all we need to worry about.'

by bertil 6mo ago

alt227 6mo ago

Lovely tone, you sound like a really nice person. I never mentioned train wheels at all. Their brake pads are made from things like carbon, ceramic, and resin compounds. These wear down like any brake pads and so cause the same dust pollution. Remember that some trains in the world are over a mile long and have over 1000 wheels. I dont see anybody claiming that bikes or trains cause anywhere near the same level as cars, but it is important to remember that they still do cause some and so they are not a silver bullet. Solutions still need advancing in order to completely remove these pollutants from human transportation systems.

bertil 6mo ago
> Im sure bikes and trains are too. > … for tyres and brakes You are welcome to edit your comment to clarify.
- alt227 6mo ago
  No need, it is correct. Bikes have tyre pollution, and trains have brake pollution. Seems like a pretty simple statement to me. Interesting that you have moved from arguing the point into semantics now without addressing anything else. You are welcome to remove your downvotes. People seem to get very upset when others point out that transport like bikes and trains still cause the same pollution as cars. yes it is much less, possibly orders of magnitude so, but they still cause it. Perhaps instead of getting the pitchforks out we could work together to find better wheel and brake solutions for all transpotation methods which dont cause so much toxic dust.
  - dijit 6mo ago
    You can't downvote direct replies.
    - alt227 6mo ago
      [flagged]
      - bertil 6mo ago
        You really don’t like factual replies, do you?
        alt227 6mo ago
        I would prefer to keep on topic and discuss the original points personally, but it seems people keep trying to derail into berating each other, commenting on peoples behavoir and pointing out forum rules. Seems strange to me but I get dragged in all the same. Is it not factual that trains have brake pads which wear down and cause carcenogenic micro dust? Seems I made that factual point and it was ignored in favour of criticisizing my semantics and stating obvious site rules.
        bertil 6mo ago
        > Seems strange to me but I get dragged in all the same. Maybe it‘s a you thing? > Is it not factual that trains have brake pads which wear down and cause carcenogenic micro dust? Not a point I have contested, but yet another suggestion without any sense of scale, and so far you have refused to address that aspect of five or six replies on the topic. Maybe that’s why you are inviting so much hostility?
        alt227 6mo ago
        > yet another suggestion without any sense of scale > Maybe that’s why you are inviting so much hostility? If you are somebody who resorts to hostility just because somebody puts forward an argument without full explanation and rationale, then you have my sympathies. Looking at your other replies in the thread and what other people are replying to you, it seems that you are either a really hostile person or just having a really bad day. I hope it is the latter for your own sake. Like others I wish you well and hope that you can find peace without having to engage in mud sliging against anonymous people on the internet.
dijit 6mo ago
'Bikes cause it too' is technically true in the way that a dripping tap and a burst dam both cause flooding. The effect of this framing (intentional or not) is to suggest we shouldn't prioritise the thing that causes 99.99% of the problem until we've solved the thing that causes 0.01%. That's not a serious position, you're just protecting your comfort.
- alt227 6mo ago
  Have you ever seen the damage a dripping tap can do? I have seen houses completely wrecked by it. Stop protecting your argument by trying to say something small doesnt matter. It all matters, regardless of size. If the argument is that microplastics are harmful to health, surely we should be looking at all sources of them instead of just the biggest? My argument is 'Lets try to make all vehicle tyres and brakes from something that doesnt pollute the earth and harm animal life on it.' Yours seems to be 'Lets ignore the plastic pollution from other transport because cars cause the most, so thats all we need to worry about.'