4 ms·

Luigi Mangione, the guy who shot an health insurance company CEOs in 2024

by gattilorenz 7mo ago

baggy_trough 7mo ago
Yes, but what does the “or even” mean?
- culi 7mo ago
  Transliteration: > [...] not defending [the people who "seem to genuinely be OK with violence"]—or even Luigi (the one who carried out the violence in question)— [...]
  - ndsipa_pomu 7mo ago
    Do you have any evidence that Luigi carried out any violence whatsoever? He's been accused of a murder, but there seems to be no appreciation that people are innocent until proven guilty.
    - loeg 7mo ago
      Happy to clear this up for you. Only courts of law are held to the “innocent until proven guilty” standard. Ordinary people are free to form and share their own opinions based on reported facts. Mangione is a murderer. Hope that helps!
      - deleted 7mo ago
        [deleted]
      - AlexeyBelov 7mo ago
        "facts" > Mangione is a murderer Are you trying to rage-bait people?
        loeg 7mo ago
        Maybe you missed the "opinions based on" part of the very short comment?
      - ndsipa_pomu 7mo ago
        I don't think you should be opening yourself up to accusations of libel like that. It's foolish if you don't have any proof to incur the possible threat of being sued without any upside, apart from appearing "edgy".
        loeg 7mo ago
        Opinion based on disclosed facts is not illegal in the US; Mangione would lose the suit, if he bothered to sue. Unlike the UK, we have free speech in the US.
        culi 7mo ago
        Agreed. I fully support anyone's right to call him a hero or a murderer (or both)
ndsipa_pomu 7mo ago
Surely that's a libellous thing to say, or is there no rule of law in the USA these days? Luigi has been accused of the shooting, but there's discrepancies with the possibly illegal search of his backpack and the body cameras of the police were turned off for 11 minutes which raises suspicions of planted evidence.
- loeg 7mo ago
  You appear to be based in the UK. Speech laws are very different in the US. It is a mistake to project your understanding of censorious UK speech laws on us. Unlike the UK, expressing opinion is inherently legal here. What would be illegal is lying about specific facts, or expressing opinion based on secret facts you falsely claim to have. However, the standard for damaging a public figure, which Mangione certainly is, is very high -- Mangione would need to show "actual malice" (that is, that the speaker knew or should have known they were making false statements).

Luigi Mangione, the guy who shot an health insurance company CEOs in 2024

baggy_trough 7mo ago

Yes, but what does the “or even” mean?

culi 7mo ago
Transliteration: > [...] not defending [the people who "seem to genuinely be OK with violence"]—or even Luigi (the one who carried out the violence in question)— [...]
- ndsipa_pomu 7mo ago
  Do you have any evidence that Luigi carried out any violence whatsoever? He's been accused of a murder, but there seems to be no appreciation that people are innocent until proven guilty.
  - loeg 7mo ago
    Happy to clear this up for you. Only courts of law are held to the “innocent until proven guilty” standard. Ordinary people are free to form and share their own opinions based on reported facts. Mangione is a murderer. Hope that helps!
    - deleted 7mo ago
      [deleted]
    - AlexeyBelov 7mo ago
      "facts" > Mangione is a murderer Are you trying to rage-bait people?
      - loeg 7mo ago
        Maybe you missed the "opinions based on" part of the very short comment?
    - ndsipa_pomu 7mo ago
      I don't think you should be opening yourself up to accusations of libel like that. It's foolish if you don't have any proof to incur the possible threat of being sued without any upside, apart from appearing "edgy".
      - loeg 7mo ago
        Opinion based on disclosed facts is not illegal in the US; Mangione would lose the suit, if he bothered to sue. Unlike the UK, we have free speech in the US.
        culi 7mo ago
        Agreed. I fully support anyone's right to call him a hero or a murderer (or both)

ndsipa_pomu 7mo ago

Surely that's a libellous thing to say, or is there no rule of law in the USA these days? Luigi has been accused of the shooting, but there's discrepancies with the possibly illegal search of his backpack and the body cameras of the police were turned off for 11 minutes which raises suspicions of planted evidence.

loeg 7mo ago
You appear to be based in the UK. Speech laws are very different in the US. It is a mistake to project your understanding of censorious UK speech laws on us. Unlike the UK, expressing opinion is inherently legal here. What would be illegal is lying about specific facts, or expressing opinion based on secret facts you falsely claim to have. However, the standard for damaging a public figure, which Mangione certainly is, is very high -- Mangione would need to show "actual malice" (that is, that the speaker knew or should have known they were making false statements).