3 ms·

> $3,000 right now I’m not sure we’re talking about the same data. Here’s the price evolution of lived calves in EU. They happen to be very high since 2025 (30

> $3,000 right now I’m not sure we’re talking about the same data. Here’s the price evolution of lived calves in EU. They happen to be very high since 2025 (300€/500€ for diary/meat) but if you click « select all » on the top left you can see they use to be around 100€/200€ in the previous 10 years, going as low as 60€/head during covid. https://agridata.ec.europa.eu/extensions/DashboardBeef/LiveAnimalPricesExt.html# https://agridata.ec.europa.eu/extensions/DashboardBeef/LiveA... > what do you consider valuable Fair point, I didn’t express it well: I don't think calves “have no value” in general, they’re sentient beings. However, as you pointed out and shown ahead, they are also part of a market and in some places their value is not high enough to care them well [0]. Some of them happen to be euthanized very shortly after birth: > In one survey of Canadian farmers, an average of 19% of calves were euthanised at birth and of those respondents that euthanised calves, 34% reported using blunt force trauma (sharp blow from a solid object to the head) [1] There’s also the "bob veal" (2–3 days to 1 month) [2], I guess the goal is to have a different taste but I’m not sure about that. side note: I found the technique used to "select for heifers" you mentioned: the process is called flow cytometer and it sorts the sperm with a laser. [0] https://www.journalofdairyscience.org/article/S0022-0302(17)31156-6/fulltext https://www.journalofdairyscience.org/article/S0022-0302(17)... [1] https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/veterinary-science/articles/10.3389/fvets.2021.660934/full https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/veterinary-science/arti... [2] https://www.britannica.com/technology/meat-processing/Labels-and-standards#ref501778 https://www.britannica.com/technology/meat-processing/Labels...

9rx 6mo ago
> in the previous 10 years [...] [1] [2] For the sake of understanding our communication breakdown, what suggests "in this day of age of high-priced beef" is talking about 5-10 years ago?
- aziaziazi 6mo ago
  To have a better understanding, one could suggest to search for the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize
  - 9rx 6mo ago
    Exactly. From my point of view the strongest plausible interpretation of "in this day of age of high-priced beef" is that it recognizes that the current situation is a historical anomaly. But that isn't how it was interpreted. We saw the weakest plausible interpretation + silly criticism transpire instead. However, I trust in good faith that it wasn't intentionally interpreted in the weakest way, but rather that it simply failed to communicate its intent. Which is where I seek an understanding of where it broke down so that I can be clearer in the future.
    - aziaziazi 6mo ago
      Indeed I didn’t read "in this day of age of high-priced beef" as a few month (or 1-2 years) situation for beef only and more like "in this days of inflation", like since a few decades. The communication breakdown also comes from me as we are two in the thread. I should probably re-read "How to Win Friends and Influence People", a best seller that truly changed my relation to others 15 years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influen...

9rx 6mo ago

> in the previous 10 years [...] [1] [2] For the sake of understanding our communication breakdown, what suggests "in this day of age of high-priced beef" is talking about 5-10 years ago?

aziaziazi 6mo ago
To have a better understanding, one could suggest to search for the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize
- 9rx 6mo ago
  Exactly. From my point of view the strongest plausible interpretation of "in this day of age of high-priced beef" is that it recognizes that the current situation is a historical anomaly. But that isn't how it was interpreted. We saw the weakest plausible interpretation + silly criticism transpire instead. However, I trust in good faith that it wasn't intentionally interpreted in the weakest way, but rather that it simply failed to communicate its intent. Which is where I seek an understanding of where it broke down so that I can be clearer in the future.
  - aziaziazi 6mo ago
    Indeed I didn’t read "in this day of age of high-priced beef" as a few month (or 1-2 years) situation for beef only and more like "in this days of inflation", like since a few decades. The communication breakdown also comes from me as we are two in the thread. I should probably re-read "How to Win Friends and Influence People", a best seller that truly changed my relation to others 15 years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influen...