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Do drones just appear out of thin air? Or are they made in factories, which as far as I know are "high value fixed civilian infrastructure" - which is vulnerabl

Do drones just appear out of thin air? Or are they made in factories, which as far as I know are "high value fixed civilian infrastructure" - which is vulnerable to attack? If drones become a big enough problem for countries like the US, then drone factories in China will be bombed, I have no doubt about that. The author is quite misguided if he thinks wars can only be fought defensively and never offensively.

malfist 7mo ago
A lot of the Ukrainian drones are produced in small buildings like homes and buisness, not massive centralized factories. Hard to take out your enemy's production capability if A) you can't find it and B) it's highly distributed.
- carlosjobim 7mo ago
  They're assembled in small buildings, but at least some of the components require sophisticated factories. There are with all certainty weapons in orbit right now, locked on to these crucial factories, ready to fire if needed.
  - Legend2440 7mo ago
    In orbit? Probably not. No country has operational satellites designed to attack ground targets. They would need to launch missiles or send drones. In a total war you absolutely do target factories and industry. But this is easier said than done; they tend to be deep inside enemy territory. And drones are made out of commonplace consumer electronics parts, which could be made in thousands of factories around the world.
    - carlosjobim 7mo ago
      > No country has operational satellites designed to attack ground targets. Why are you so sure of that? It would be very surprising if at least the United States and Russia didn't have orbital weapons. They've been in sending large stuff to space for decades. Of course they wouldn't have told you or anybody else who isn't supposed to know. > In a total war you absolutely do target factories and industry. And that's what you would do - or threaten to do - long before you start replacing your roads with tunnels as the author is suggesting.
      - psychoslave 7mo ago
        No idea how actually efficient that would be even in theory. I guess it's not technical technicaly impossible, but would it really bring any benefit compared to launching possibly many more cheaper transcontinental rockets from earth were maintenance and control is definitely easier.
      - krisoft 7mo ago
        > It would be very surprising if at least the United States and Russia didn't have orbital weapons. They've been in sending large stuff to space for decades. Depends on what you mean by “orbital weapons”. I assume you are not thinking of the sidearms of astronauts, or anti-satelite satelites. If you are thinking about nukes pre-positioned in space then the 1967 Outer Space Treaty bans the stationing of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) in outer space. And this is not just paper prohibition. The reality of space based nukes is that the time between deorbiting and touch-down is so short that nuclear armed states would treat their launch (the time when they are placed into orbit) as an attack and launch in retaliation against the launching country. Basically if you try to sneak them into orbit and the enemy finds out about them you will be anihilated. This is just simple MAD doctrine. So the strategic balance which is preventing you from launching your ground based warheads is the same which is preventing you from launching your future space based warheads into orbit. > Of course they wouldn't have told you or anybody else who isn't supposed to know. I wouldn’t assume that you or me would learn about it. But it is almost given that the peer nations would figure it out. They spend considerable resources trying to figure out if you are doing this. And then they get MAD and your country is no more.
  - gpm 7mo ago
    The sophisticated factories they need are basically just for chips. And the problem with chips is that civilian life is just as dependent on them as military armaments. The rest of the drone is all stuff that can be fabricated in small batches in a garage... of course bigs factories are more efficient at fabricating just about anything so to the extent that's possible it's done, but bombing all the big factories won't stop it.
dragonelite 7mo ago
You think the US will unleash nuclear holocaust of the human race for some drone parts? The US will do none of that shit because they wont be able to do it. Given the US is struggling against Iran, couldn't outproduce Russia on the battlefield yet they want to force down China which is an order of magnitude bigger than Russia.
- esseph 7mo ago
  > struggling against Iran Idk what to tell you, but any target that seems to get marked in Iran blows the fuck up. > couldn't outproduce Russia on the battlefield ??? What does this even mean? It's not like the US is in a wartime economy.
  - krisoft 7mo ago
    > Idk what to tell you, but any target that seems to get marked in Iran blows the fuck up. I’m sure that is true. And yet, the oil is not flowing. We keep “winning” like this for a few more weeks/months and we lose. Not because we sudenly stop “blowing targets the fuck up”, but because we cripple our economies.
    - jonnybgood 7mo ago
      The flowing of oil is not of primary importance to the US in this conflict. The oil was already flowing. So I think we can reasonably rule that out as an objective.
      - krisoft 7mo ago
        > The flowing of oil is not of primary importance to the US in this conflict. You think so? Then why did the US make it the condition of cease fire? Why did the US even agree to a cease fire? It is not like Iran is hurting the US mainland kinetically. > The oil was already flowing. So I think we can reasonably rule that out as an objective. Sometimes you have a thing and you don’t appreciate how important it is for you until you don’t have it anymore.
SkyeCA 7mo ago
> If drones become a big enough problem for countries like the US, then drone factories in China will be bombed Bombing China would be an insane course of action to take for virtually any reason. That aside consider this: You currently have the power to buy a handful of the shelf parts and assemble your own deadly drone at home. You don't need very specialized parts to do this. Bombing drone factories would do nothing to stop the use of drones.
- carlosjobim 7mo ago
  And making drones and drone parts for massive assaults on stationary targets in the US is not an insane course of action? For proxy wars, super powers won't bomb each other. But if one of them is attacked by weapons from another, then they will. > You don't need very specialized parts to do this. So making drones and drone parts do not require any highly advanced technology or manufacturing processes? Then why weren't they widely used in the first world war?
  - maxglute 7mo ago
    > is not an insane course of action? No? Flat out arming proxies is literally the point of overt proxy warfare. Sometimes one tries to to be deniable and source other weapons, but other times it's just, enjoy quagmire, cry about it. It's like suggesting PRC going to start blowing up Lockheed plants if they ever lose anything to US munitions.
    - carlosjobim 7mo ago
      Yes, if mainland China is successfully invaded by a country being supplied with American military equipment and having their fixed infrastructure destroyed - like described in the article - you can be dead sure that they will try to destroy American military plants. None of the super power countries will ever accept defeat in their homeland and being conquered without using all means possible to hinder it. That's why the USA has strong opinions on how the Ukraine uses long range weapons in the war with Russia.

malfist 7mo ago

A lot of the Ukrainian drones are produced in small buildings like homes and buisness, not massive centralized factories. Hard to take out your enemy's production capability if A) you can't find it and B) it's highly distributed.

carlosjobim 7mo ago
They're assembled in small buildings, but at least some of the components require sophisticated factories. There are with all certainty weapons in orbit right now, locked on to these crucial factories, ready to fire if needed.
- Legend2440 7mo ago
  In orbit? Probably not. No country has operational satellites designed to attack ground targets. They would need to launch missiles or send drones. In a total war you absolutely do target factories and industry. But this is easier said than done; they tend to be deep inside enemy territory. And drones are made out of commonplace consumer electronics parts, which could be made in thousands of factories around the world.
  - carlosjobim 7mo ago
    > No country has operational satellites designed to attack ground targets. Why are you so sure of that? It would be very surprising if at least the United States and Russia didn't have orbital weapons. They've been in sending large stuff to space for decades. Of course they wouldn't have told you or anybody else who isn't supposed to know. > In a total war you absolutely do target factories and industry. And that's what you would do - or threaten to do - long before you start replacing your roads with tunnels as the author is suggesting.
    - psychoslave 7mo ago
      No idea how actually efficient that would be even in theory. I guess it's not technical technicaly impossible, but would it really bring any benefit compared to launching possibly many more cheaper transcontinental rockets from earth were maintenance and control is definitely easier.
    - krisoft 7mo ago
      > It would be very surprising if at least the United States and Russia didn't have orbital weapons. They've been in sending large stuff to space for decades. Depends on what you mean by “orbital weapons”. I assume you are not thinking of the sidearms of astronauts, or anti-satelite satelites. If you are thinking about nukes pre-positioned in space then the 1967 Outer Space Treaty bans the stationing of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) in outer space. And this is not just paper prohibition. The reality of space based nukes is that the time between deorbiting and touch-down is so short that nuclear armed states would treat their launch (the time when they are placed into orbit) as an attack and launch in retaliation against the launching country. Basically if you try to sneak them into orbit and the enemy finds out about them you will be anihilated. This is just simple MAD doctrine. So the strategic balance which is preventing you from launching your ground based warheads is the same which is preventing you from launching your future space based warheads into orbit. > Of course they wouldn't have told you or anybody else who isn't supposed to know. I wouldn’t assume that you or me would learn about it. But it is almost given that the peer nations would figure it out. They spend considerable resources trying to figure out if you are doing this. And then they get MAD and your country is no more.
- gpm 7mo ago
  The sophisticated factories they need are basically just for chips. And the problem with chips is that civilian life is just as dependent on them as military armaments. The rest of the drone is all stuff that can be fabricated in small batches in a garage... of course bigs factories are more efficient at fabricating just about anything so to the extent that's possible it's done, but bombing all the big factories won't stop it.

dragonelite 7mo ago

You think the US will unleash nuclear holocaust of the human race for some drone parts? The US will do none of that shit because they wont be able to do it. Given the US is struggling against Iran, couldn't outproduce Russia on the battlefield yet they want to force down China which is an order of magnitude bigger than Russia.

esseph 7mo ago
> struggling against Iran Idk what to tell you, but any target that seems to get marked in Iran blows the fuck up. > couldn't outproduce Russia on the battlefield ??? What does this even mean? It's not like the US is in a wartime economy.
- krisoft 7mo ago
  > Idk what to tell you, but any target that seems to get marked in Iran blows the fuck up. I’m sure that is true. And yet, the oil is not flowing. We keep “winning” like this for a few more weeks/months and we lose. Not because we sudenly stop “blowing targets the fuck up”, but because we cripple our economies.
  - jonnybgood 7mo ago
    The flowing of oil is not of primary importance to the US in this conflict. The oil was already flowing. So I think we can reasonably rule that out as an objective.
    - krisoft 7mo ago
      > The flowing of oil is not of primary importance to the US in this conflict. You think so? Then why did the US make it the condition of cease fire? Why did the US even agree to a cease fire? It is not like Iran is hurting the US mainland kinetically. > The oil was already flowing. So I think we can reasonably rule that out as an objective. Sometimes you have a thing and you don’t appreciate how important it is for you until you don’t have it anymore.

SkyeCA 7mo ago

> If drones become a big enough problem for countries like the US, then drone factories in China will be bombed Bombing China would be an insane course of action to take for virtually any reason. That aside consider this: You currently have the power to buy a handful of the shelf parts and assemble your own deadly drone at home. You don't need very specialized parts to do this. Bombing drone factories would do nothing to stop the use of drones.

carlosjobim 7mo ago
And making drones and drone parts for massive assaults on stationary targets in the US is not an insane course of action? For proxy wars, super powers won't bomb each other. But if one of them is attacked by weapons from another, then they will. > You don't need very specialized parts to do this. So making drones and drone parts do not require any highly advanced technology or manufacturing processes? Then why weren't they widely used in the first world war?
- maxglute 7mo ago
  > is not an insane course of action? No? Flat out arming proxies is literally the point of overt proxy warfare. Sometimes one tries to to be deniable and source other weapons, but other times it's just, enjoy quagmire, cry about it. It's like suggesting PRC going to start blowing up Lockheed plants if they ever lose anything to US munitions.
  - carlosjobim 7mo ago
    Yes, if mainland China is successfully invaded by a country being supplied with American military equipment and having their fixed infrastructure destroyed - like described in the article - you can be dead sure that they will try to destroy American military plants. None of the super power countries will ever accept defeat in their homeland and being conquered without using all means possible to hinder it. That's why the USA has strong opinions on how the Ukraine uses long range weapons in the war with Russia.