2 ms·

> The non-desired sexed are not so valuable. Huh? A holstein bull calf is selling for around $3,000 right now. That's... insane. I remember from what doesn't

by 9rx 6mo ago

> The non-desired sexed are not so valuable. Huh? A holstein bull calf is selling for around $3,000 right now. That's... insane. I remember from what doesn't seem all that long ago when fats didn't even fetch half that much. Beef has gone wild. If that's not valuable, what do you consider valuable?

aziaziazi 6mo ago
> $3,000 right now I’m not sure we’re talking about the same data. Here’s the price evolution of lived calves in EU. They happen to be very high since 2025 (300€/500€ for diary/meat) but if you click « select all » on the top left you can see they use to be around 100€/200€ in the previous 10 years, going as low as 60€/head during covid. https://agridata.ec.europa.eu/extensions/DashboardBeef/LiveAnimalPricesExt.html# https://agridata.ec.europa.eu/extensions/DashboardBeef/LiveA... > what do you consider valuable Fair point, I didn’t express it well: I don't think calves “have no value” in general, they’re sentient beings. However, as you pointed out and shown ahead, they are also part of a market and in some places their value is not high enough to care them well [0]. Some of them happen to be euthanized very shortly after birth: > In one survey of Canadian farmers, an average of 19% of calves were euthanised at birth and of those respondents that euthanised calves, 34% reported using blunt force trauma (sharp blow from a solid object to the head) [1] There’s also the "bob veal" (2–3 days to 1 month) [2], I guess the goal is to have a different taste but I’m not sure about that. side note: I found the technique used to "select for heifers" you mentioned: the process is called flow cytometer and it sorts the sperm with a laser. [0] https://www.journalofdairyscience.org/article/S0022-0302(17)31156-6/fulltext https://www.journalofdairyscience.org/article/S0022-0302(17)... [1] https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/veterinary-science/articles/10.3389/fvets.2021.660934/full https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/veterinary-science/arti... [2] https://www.britannica.com/technology/meat-processing/Labels-and-standards#ref501778 https://www.britannica.com/technology/meat-processing/Labels...
- 9rx 6mo ago
  > in the previous 10 years [...] [1] [2] For the sake of understanding our communication breakdown, what suggests "in this day of age of high-priced beef" is talking about 5-10 years ago?
  - aziaziazi 6mo ago
    To have a better understanding, one could suggest to search for the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize
    - 9rx 6mo ago
      Exactly. From my point of view the strongest plausible interpretation of "in this day of age of high-priced beef" is that it recognizes that the current situation is a historical anomaly. But that isn't how it was interpreted. We saw the weakest plausible interpretation + silly criticism transpire instead. However, I trust in good faith that it wasn't intentionally interpreted in the weakest way, but rather that it simply failed to communicate its intent. Which is where I seek an understanding of where it broke down so that I can be clearer in the future.
      - aziaziazi 6mo ago
        Indeed I didn’t read "in this day of age of high-priced beef" as a few month (or 1-2 years) situation for beef only and more like "in this days of inflation", like since a few decades. The communication breakdown also comes from me as we are two in the thread. I should probably re-read "How to Win Friends and Influence People", a best seller that truly changed my relation to others 15 years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influen...

by 9rx 6mo ago

aziaziazi 6mo ago

> $3,000 right now I’m not sure we’re talking about the same data. Here’s the price evolution of lived calves in EU. They happen to be very high since 2025 (300€/500€ for diary/meat) but if you click « select all » on the top left you can see they use to be around 100€/200€ in the previous 10 years, going as low as 60€/head during covid. https://agridata.ec.europa.eu/extensions/DashboardBeef/LiveAnimalPricesExt.html# https://agridata.ec.europa.eu/extensions/DashboardBeef/LiveA... > what do you consider valuable Fair point, I didn’t express it well: I don't think calves “have no value” in general, they’re sentient beings. However, as you pointed out and shown ahead, they are also part of a market and in some places their value is not high enough to care them well [0]. Some of them happen to be euthanized very shortly after birth: > In one survey of Canadian farmers, an average of 19% of calves were euthanised at birth and of those respondents that euthanised calves, 34% reported using blunt force trauma (sharp blow from a solid object to the head) [1] There’s also the "bob veal" (2–3 days to 1 month) [2], I guess the goal is to have a different taste but I’m not sure about that. side note: I found the technique used to "select for heifers" you mentioned: the process is called flow cytometer and it sorts the sperm with a laser. [0] https://www.journalofdairyscience.org/article/S0022-0302(17)31156-6/fulltext https://www.journalofdairyscience.org/article/S0022-0302(17)... [1] https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/veterinary-science/articles/10.3389/fvets.2021.660934/full https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/veterinary-science/arti... [2] https://www.britannica.com/technology/meat-processing/Labels-and-standards#ref501778 https://www.britannica.com/technology/meat-processing/Labels...

9rx 6mo ago
> in the previous 10 years [...] [1] [2] For the sake of understanding our communication breakdown, what suggests "in this day of age of high-priced beef" is talking about 5-10 years ago?
- aziaziazi 6mo ago
  To have a better understanding, one could suggest to search for the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize
  - 9rx 6mo ago
    Exactly. From my point of view the strongest plausible interpretation of "in this day of age of high-priced beef" is that it recognizes that the current situation is a historical anomaly. But that isn't how it was interpreted. We saw the weakest plausible interpretation + silly criticism transpire instead. However, I trust in good faith that it wasn't intentionally interpreted in the weakest way, but rather that it simply failed to communicate its intent. Which is where I seek an understanding of where it broke down so that I can be clearer in the future.
    - aziaziazi 6mo ago
      Indeed I didn’t read "in this day of age of high-priced beef" as a few month (or 1-2 years) situation for beef only and more like "in this days of inflation", like since a few decades. The communication breakdown also comes from me as we are two in the thread. I should probably re-read "How to Win Friends and Influence People", a best seller that truly changed my relation to others 15 years ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influen...