4 ms·

Unless you need some windows-only software, using windows at this point is masochism. I was never a fan of Linux, but the Microsoft driven enshitification is so

by Jyaif 6mo ago

Unless you need some windows-only software, using windows at this point is masochism. I was never a fan of Linux, but the Microsoft driven enshitification is so strong that Linux is now a better option. To win, all Linux had to do is stand still, and that's exactly what it did! Ubuntu in 2026 is pretty much the same as Ubuntu from 2006.

master-lincoln 6mo ago
WINE has come a long way. Most Windows software now just works on Linux. I don't know why you believe Ubuntu stood still. Looking at the history that does not seem to be the case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_version_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_version_history
- embedding-shape 6mo ago
  Personally, the last holdover is Ableton. Last time this came up, bunch of people pointed me to https://github.com/BEEFY-JOE/AbletonLiveOnLinux https://github.com/BEEFY-JOE/AbletonLiveOnLinux which has since then been marked as archived, and I'm still unable to run Ableton 12 properly on Linux via WINE, even though I've probably spent too many man-hours on getting it to work... I'm still eagerly awaiting the day though, any day now surely.
carlosjobim 6mo ago
You forget about MacOS. And Apple are making some very aggressive moves as of lately to capture users.
- schnitzelstoat 6mo ago
  MacOS is the same sort of walled garden as Windows though. It has plenty of dark patterns in stuff like iCloud too, I imagine with some more years of enshittification it will be in a similar state to Windows today.
  - carlosjobim 6mo ago
    And corporate customers like the French government will want their users to be within strictly controlled environments - walled gardens. That's why they've used Microsoft for so long. MacOS isn't as good for this scenario from what I understand, but is Linux?
    - dominicrose 6mo ago
      IMO the walled garden doesn't have to be the employee's computer but centralized servers holding the data, intranet services, etc.
esskay 6mo ago
> Unless you need some windows-only software In many cases even if you do though, its possible to run it on WINE pretty well these days. It's insane how good it's become in the last few years (partly thanks to proton and Valves investment in it all really)
- ghaff 6mo ago
  "Pretty well" is doing a lot of work. I have no horse in the race. I just run native on MacOS or Linux. Haven't run any Windows in a number of years. (I don't really game much and would just use my Xbox if I really wanted to--though that mostly functions as a DVD player these days.) But if "pretty well" causes the random administrative person to have issues with doing their job or increases IT support costs, it will be off the menu pretty quickly. We'll see. A lot of things are different from the last round of we're going to Linux in Europe.
  - hootz 6mo ago
    Nowadays, pretty well a lot of times means really well, maybe even better than on Windows. See Windows games running faster on Linux through Wine.
    - ghaff 6mo ago
      As I say no dog in hunt and don't actually have a Linux laptop any longer since I had to send it back to my company--from whence I'm sure it went straight to recycling. Maybe I'll buy an older refurb Thinkpad at some point.
    - theshackleford 6mo ago
      > See Windows games running faster on Linux through Wine. Let’s not leave out all the ones that don’t. Which is in fact, the majority of them. Strange how that’s always left out, we wouldn’t want to mislead people now would we?
      - esskay 6mo ago
stratts 6mo ago
> Ubuntu in 2026 is pretty much the same as Ubuntu from 2006. Well, Ubuntu MATE perhaps :) Windows LTSC I find comes pretty close to the less intrusive Windows I remember from the XP/7 era.
lunar_rover 6mo ago
> To win, all Linux had to do is stand still, and that's exactly what it did! It is moving? Red Hat has been investing in containised apps and image based distros for years, Valve single handedly made Linux gaming viable. HDR development is mostly driven by Valve and Red Hat customers. And no Linux isn't good enough yet. UX is all over the place.
- embedding-shape 6mo ago
  > And no Linux isn't good enough yet. UX is all over the place. Of course you'd think the UX is messy if you only look at the kernel ;) It's up to the distributions and desktop/window managers to handle the UX, and the experience varies as much as there are desktop/window managers. Some of them are fairly internally consistent, like KDE and Gnome, and at least they're currently more internally consistent than Windows and macOS. I use macOS, Windows and Gnome daily, and the only one that doesn't give me daily grief in some manner, is Gnome.
- WhyNotHugo 6mo ago
  > And no Linux isn't good enough yet. UX is all over the place. Sure, the UX for Linux desktop is all over the place, and a lot of software is messy and untidy. But Windows isn't any better in that sense. It doesn't have a clear, cohesive design style either. Its selling point used to be that users were familiar with the UI, but it seems to change so much that users can't really leverage that much either.
internet_points 6mo ago
a Windows license is only cheap if your time has negative value

by Jyaif 6mo ago

master-lincoln 6mo ago

WINE has come a long way. Most Windows software now just works on Linux. I don't know why you believe Ubuntu stood still. Looking at the history that does not seem to be the case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_version_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_version_history

embedding-shape 6mo ago
Personally, the last holdover is Ableton. Last time this came up, bunch of people pointed me to https://github.com/BEEFY-JOE/AbletonLiveOnLinux https://github.com/BEEFY-JOE/AbletonLiveOnLinux which has since then been marked as archived, and I'm still unable to run Ableton 12 properly on Linux via WINE, even though I've probably spent too many man-hours on getting it to work... I'm still eagerly awaiting the day though, any day now surely.

carlosjobim 6mo ago

You forget about MacOS. And Apple are making some very aggressive moves as of lately to capture users.

schnitzelstoat 6mo ago
MacOS is the same sort of walled garden as Windows though. It has plenty of dark patterns in stuff like iCloud too, I imagine with some more years of enshittification it will be in a similar state to Windows today.
- carlosjobim 6mo ago
  And corporate customers like the French government will want their users to be within strictly controlled environments - walled gardens. That's why they've used Microsoft for so long. MacOS isn't as good for this scenario from what I understand, but is Linux?
  - dominicrose 6mo ago
    IMO the walled garden doesn't have to be the employee's computer but centralized servers holding the data, intranet services, etc.

esskay 6mo ago

> Unless you need some windows-only software In many cases even if you do though, its possible to run it on WINE pretty well these days. It's insane how good it's become in the last few years (partly thanks to proton and Valves investment in it all really)

ghaff 6mo ago
"Pretty well" is doing a lot of work. I have no horse in the race. I just run native on MacOS or Linux. Haven't run any Windows in a number of years. (I don't really game much and would just use my Xbox if I really wanted to--though that mostly functions as a DVD player these days.) But if "pretty well" causes the random administrative person to have issues with doing their job or increases IT support costs, it will be off the menu pretty quickly. We'll see. A lot of things are different from the last round of we're going to Linux in Europe.
- hootz 6mo ago
  Nowadays, pretty well a lot of times means really well, maybe even better than on Windows. See Windows games running faster on Linux through Wine.
  - ghaff 6mo ago
    As I say no dog in hunt and don't actually have a Linux laptop any longer since I had to send it back to my company--from whence I'm sure it went straight to recycling. Maybe I'll buy an older refurb Thinkpad at some point.
  - theshackleford 6mo ago
    > See Windows games running faster on Linux through Wine. Let’s not leave out all the ones that don’t. Which is in fact, the majority of them. Strange how that’s always left out, we wouldn’t want to mislead people now would we?
    - esskay 6mo ago

stratts 6mo ago

> Ubuntu in 2026 is pretty much the same as Ubuntu from 2006. Well, Ubuntu MATE perhaps :) Windows LTSC I find comes pretty close to the less intrusive Windows I remember from the XP/7 era.

lunar_rover 6mo ago

> To win, all Linux had to do is stand still, and that's exactly what it did! It is moving? Red Hat has been investing in containised apps and image based distros for years, Valve single handedly made Linux gaming viable. HDR development is mostly driven by Valve and Red Hat customers. And no Linux isn't good enough yet. UX is all over the place.

embedding-shape 6mo ago
> And no Linux isn't good enough yet. UX is all over the place. Of course you'd think the UX is messy if you only look at the kernel ;) It's up to the distributions and desktop/window managers to handle the UX, and the experience varies as much as there are desktop/window managers. Some of them are fairly internally consistent, like KDE and Gnome, and at least they're currently more internally consistent than Windows and macOS. I use macOS, Windows and Gnome daily, and the only one that doesn't give me daily grief in some manner, is Gnome.
WhyNotHugo 6mo ago
> And no Linux isn't good enough yet. UX is all over the place. Sure, the UX for Linux desktop is all over the place, and a lot of software is messy and untidy. But Windows isn't any better in that sense. It doesn't have a clear, cohesive design style either. Its selling point used to be that users were familiar with the UI, but it seems to change so much that users can't really leverage that much either.

internet_points 6mo ago

a Windows license is only cheap if your time has negative value