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I looked for a term like "mechanical sympathy" for years. In fact, I think I even came up with that independently when I was thinking about it. I remember askin

I looked for a term like "mechanical sympathy" for years. In fact, I think I even came up with that independently when I was thinking about it. I remember asking on some internet forum if anyone else feels a sense of sympathy towards machines and most people made fun of me. A few admitted they didn't like crunching the gears in their car gearbox. But I was talking about all machines. I don't like it when a washing machine is off balance and vibrating violently. I don't like to use my tools at, or anywhere near, there mechanical limits. When I observe normies they don't seem to care. They'll force and abuse things all the time. I did wonder if it was part of my predisposition towards engineering.

vlfig 7mo ago
You are not alone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_wei https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_wei
- globular-toast 7mo ago
  Fascinating. I have been reading the Tao Te Ching but had not yet made this connection.
fredrikholm 7mo ago
> When I observe normies they don't seem to care. They'll force and abuse things all the time. I did wonder if it was part of my predisposition towards engineering. Caring implies doing the right thing, which you can't afford lest you now be bogged down with the burden of doing it correctly, which requires effort. Some people use dull knives because the thought of maintaining and sharpening them is worse than almost losing a finger every time they need to cut a tomato in half. I suspect that a lot of people find proactive and sustained effort to be so draining that they'd rather continually have second rate experiences and find peace in that. Then there's people who just generally don't care. I'm hoping (for my own sanity) that this is a bias on the observer as it's easy to look at someone from the outside and not see the areas where they do care and do the right more times than not. I know I've been unable to live up to my own standards plenty of times throughout the years for factors outside of caring.
- jstanley 7mo ago
  The idea that a blunt knife is more dangerous than a sharp one is a total fallacy. Every time I've cut myself on a knife, it's been because it was too sharp, not because it was too blunt. In the limit, a blunt knife is a sphere and a sharp knife is a sharp knife. Very obviously sharp knives are more dangerous than blunt ones because sharp knives cut better and blunt knives cut worse.
  - globular-toast 7mo ago
    Then you've never injured yourself with a blunt blade. Good for you!
  - bayindirh 7mo ago
    > The idea that a blunt knife is more dangerous than a sharp one is a total fallacy. I don't think so. I personally find dull knives more dangerous because I need to apply more pressure and when it starts to cut, the knife becomes uncontrollable. When the blade is sharp, and you know it's sharp, you respect the blade and give actual thought to what you're doing. My wife didn't used to sharpen her knives. When I started to sharpen them, she had a couple of minor accidents, but now the accident rate is at 0.0. She even wants me to sharpen the knives when they become dull. This is exactly what "having a feeling for the machine is". You know and respect it for what it is. It bites back when you don't respect it. Let it be a knife or a space shuttle, it doesn't matter.
    - jstanley 7mo ago
      > you respect the blade and give actual thought to what you're doing. Is this perhaps because you know it to be dangerous? I'm not opposed to having sharp knives btw. Sharp knives are better because they cut more easily. But for that reason they are also more dangerous. Would you rather hand a toddler a butter knife or a chef's knife to play with?
      - bayindirh 7mo ago
        Depends on the toddler's character and understanding level. I was using Swiss army knives as early as 5-6 years old. I probably cut myself thrice at most. However, if the toddler is the reckless kind, they'll start with a plastic butter knife.
bayindirh 7mo ago
If it's going to make you feel better, I'm pretty same with you. I want to be able to see and feel that everything I use, let it be software or hardware (from keyboard to washing machine and to car) is working smoothly and happily with lots of design tolerance left. While I'm also very engineering inclined, I was like that since very young age. Maybe it's how my brain is wired, or a natural extension of my curiosity, I don't know. From what I observe, many people doesn't know what's normal and what's not. This is two pronged. Most of the people doesn't know that they are running to the limit unless the tool misbehaves or breaks down. A minority just don't care. They either don't value, or think that machines are meant to be used that way. Either way, it's more not being knowledgeable than being malicious against devices, at least from my experience.

vlfig 7mo ago

You are not alone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_wei https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_wei

globular-toast 7mo ago
Fascinating. I have been reading the Tao Te Ching but had not yet made this connection.

fredrikholm 7mo ago

> When I observe normies they don't seem to care. They'll force and abuse things all the time. I did wonder if it was part of my predisposition towards engineering. Caring implies doing the right thing, which you can't afford lest you now be bogged down with the burden of doing it correctly, which requires effort. Some people use dull knives because the thought of maintaining and sharpening them is worse than almost losing a finger every time they need to cut a tomato in half. I suspect that a lot of people find proactive and sustained effort to be so draining that they'd rather continually have second rate experiences and find peace in that. Then there's people who just generally don't care. I'm hoping (for my own sanity) that this is a bias on the observer as it's easy to look at someone from the outside and not see the areas where they do care and do the right more times than not. I know I've been unable to live up to my own standards plenty of times throughout the years for factors outside of caring.

jstanley 7mo ago
The idea that a blunt knife is more dangerous than a sharp one is a total fallacy. Every time I've cut myself on a knife, it's been because it was too sharp, not because it was too blunt. In the limit, a blunt knife is a sphere and a sharp knife is a sharp knife. Very obviously sharp knives are more dangerous than blunt ones because sharp knives cut better and blunt knives cut worse.
- globular-toast 7mo ago
  Then you've never injured yourself with a blunt blade. Good for you!
- bayindirh 7mo ago
  > The idea that a blunt knife is more dangerous than a sharp one is a total fallacy. I don't think so. I personally find dull knives more dangerous because I need to apply more pressure and when it starts to cut, the knife becomes uncontrollable. When the blade is sharp, and you know it's sharp, you respect the blade and give actual thought to what you're doing. My wife didn't used to sharpen her knives. When I started to sharpen them, she had a couple of minor accidents, but now the accident rate is at 0.0. She even wants me to sharpen the knives when they become dull. This is exactly what "having a feeling for the machine is". You know and respect it for what it is. It bites back when you don't respect it. Let it be a knife or a space shuttle, it doesn't matter.
  - jstanley 7mo ago
    > you respect the blade and give actual thought to what you're doing. Is this perhaps because you know it to be dangerous? I'm not opposed to having sharp knives btw. Sharp knives are better because they cut more easily. But for that reason they are also more dangerous. Would you rather hand a toddler a butter knife or a chef's knife to play with?
    - bayindirh 7mo ago
      Depends on the toddler's character and understanding level. I was using Swiss army knives as early as 5-6 years old. I probably cut myself thrice at most. However, if the toddler is the reckless kind, they'll start with a plastic butter knife.

bayindirh 7mo ago

If it's going to make you feel better, I'm pretty same with you. I want to be able to see and feel that everything I use, let it be software or hardware (from keyboard to washing machine and to car) is working smoothly and happily with lots of design tolerance left. While I'm also very engineering inclined, I was like that since very young age. Maybe it's how my brain is wired, or a natural extension of my curiosity, I don't know. From what I observe, many people doesn't know what's normal and what's not. This is two pronged. Most of the people doesn't know that they are running to the limit unless the tool misbehaves or breaks down. A minority just don't care. They either don't value, or think that machines are meant to be used that way. Either way, it's more not being knowledgeable than being malicious against devices, at least from my experience.