4 ms·

It’s insane and the worst part about Mac OS

by qudat 6mo ago

veber-alex 6mo ago
Window management on macOS is just trash. 3 people from my team recently switched to macOS and they never owned a mac before and they are all complaining about window management. Do you know how dumb it makes me feel to have to tell them they need to install third party apps just to make their system somewhat usable? it's insane.
- SamuelAdams 6mo ago
  My favorite MacOS update was when the removed the need for Rectangle, Mos, and Unnatural ScrollWheels. /s
- coldtea 6mo ago
  >3 people from my team recently switched to macOS and they never owned a mac before and they are all complaining about window management. For legit reasons? Because many switchers complain for stupid reasons, like the macOS distinction between apps and windows.
  - jbverschoor 6mo ago
    Mac power user 25+ years. Yes, it’s complete shit
  - mort96 6mo ago
    Complaining about the distinction between apps and windows isn't a "stupid reason" to complain though. Say I use Slack, Teams and Outlook. If I use their Electron versions, I switch between them with cmd+tab. If I use them in separate browser windows, I switch between them by using cmd+tab to switch to Firefox, then cmd+` to cycle through windows until I find the one I want. That's weird; how you switch between these three apps depend on the technical details on how you opened them? Why? Say I have neovim, the mutt email client, and a shell open. These are three separate apps, but because they happen to run in a terminal emulator, I still have to cmd+tab to the terminal emulator, then cmd+` to cycle between them. They're semantically different applications in dedicated windows, but technical implementation details mean they belong to what macOS considers "the same app", just like the "apps in Firefox windows" example above. It wouldn't be so bad if the cmd+` "cycle between windows in the app" feature worked well. But it doesn't. Unlike cmd+tab, it doesn't show a bar which you get to select from, it just instantly re-orders your windows; and it's impossible to select a window in another workspace. That means, if I have Slack open in Firefox in workspace 1 and Outlook open in Chrome in workspace 2, I can switch between Slack and Outlook with cmd+tab, but if I Slack open in Firefox in workspace 1 and Outlook open in Firefox in workspace 2, there is no way to switch between Slack and Outlook. That's pretty bad.
    - veber-alex 6mo ago
      I would also add to this that in order to open two instances of an app the app explicitly needs to support this. For example, you can't open 2 instances of Calculator.app side by side. This is really annoying.
      - coldtea 6mo ago
        Yeah, I always want 2 calculator apps when I'm speed calculating... what?
        mort96 6mo ago
        You may want to see the result of one calculation while doing another calculation?
        coldtea 6mo ago
        If only I could write it down in a text note and refer to it and many more, as opposed to keeping a calculator window open per prior calculation I want to refer to... Or if only there was a tool like Soulver or Calca...
        mort96 6mo ago
        Yes you can write down the result of calculations and all relevant state and then clear the state of the calculator window before doing a new calculation. But why?
    - igregoryca 6mo ago
      The (shift+)cmd+` order also resets to match the window z-order whenever you switch apps. So if the order is windows A, B, C, then you select window B, cmd+tab away, then cmd+tab back, the order will now be B, A, C. I've developed an intuitive understanding of this, but I had to experiment just now to describe the behavior precisely. And my intuition is still wrong sometimes (like if the app has windows on multiple monitors, it's hard to predict the z-order). > if I Slack open in Firefox in workspace 1 and Outlook open in Firefox in workspace 2, there is no way to switch between Slack and Outlook My local maximum is to never use workspaces – just cmd+tab, cmd+`, and sometimes cmd+h to reduce screen clutter.
- lossyalgo 6mo ago
  Have your teammates also discovered how macOS handles copy/pasting a folder when the destination folder already exists? How macOS just deletes the entire contents of the destination folder, instead of merging? I remember discovering that for the first time :(
- donfotto 6mo ago
  Exactly! "It just works" used to be true for macos, and linux was for tinkering. Now, ubuntu "just works" (and fast!). It's not just that macos is slow and window management is strange. Last time I had a macbook (M2 pro) I needed 3rd party software just to use a 4k external monitor without blurring.

It’s insane and the worst part about Mac OS

by qudat 6mo ago

It’s insane and the worst part about Mac OS

Window management on macOS is just trash. 3 people from my team recently switched to macOS and they never owned a mac before and they are all complaining about window management. Do you know how dumb it makes me feel to have to tell them they need to install third party apps just to make their system somewhat usable? it's insane.

SamuelAdams 6mo ago
My favorite MacOS update was when the removed the need for Rectangle, Mos, and Unnatural ScrollWheels. /s
coldtea 6mo ago
>3 people from my team recently switched to macOS and they never owned a mac before and they are all complaining about window management. For legit reasons? Because many switchers complain for stupid reasons, like the macOS distinction between apps and windows.
- jbverschoor 6mo ago
  Mac power user 25+ years. Yes, it’s complete shit
- mort96 6mo ago
  Complaining about the distinction between apps and windows isn't a "stupid reason" to complain though. Say I use Slack, Teams and Outlook. If I use their Electron versions, I switch between them with cmd+tab. If I use them in separate browser windows, I switch between them by using cmd+tab to switch to Firefox, then cmd+` to cycle through windows until I find the one I want. That's weird; how you switch between these three apps depend on the technical details on how you opened them? Why? Say I have neovim, the mutt email client, and a shell open. These are three separate apps, but because they happen to run in a terminal emulator, I still have to cmd+tab to the terminal emulator, then cmd+` to cycle between them. They're semantically different applications in dedicated windows, but technical implementation details mean they belong to what macOS considers "the same app", just like the "apps in Firefox windows" example above. It wouldn't be so bad if the cmd+` "cycle between windows in the app" feature worked well. But it doesn't. Unlike cmd+tab, it doesn't show a bar which you get to select from, it just instantly re-orders your windows; and it's impossible to select a window in another workspace. That means, if I have Slack open in Firefox in workspace 1 and Outlook open in Chrome in workspace 2, I can switch between Slack and Outlook with cmd+tab, but if I Slack open in Firefox in workspace 1 and Outlook open in Firefox in workspace 2, there is no way to switch between Slack and Outlook. That's pretty bad.
  - veber-alex 6mo ago
    I would also add to this that in order to open two instances of an app the app explicitly needs to support this. For example, you can't open 2 instances of Calculator.app side by side. This is really annoying.
    - coldtea 6mo ago
      Yeah, I always want 2 calculator apps when I'm speed calculating... what?
      - mort96 6mo ago
        You may want to see the result of one calculation while doing another calculation?
        coldtea 6mo ago
        If only I could write it down in a text note and refer to it and many more, as opposed to keeping a calculator window open per prior calculation I want to refer to... Or if only there was a tool like Soulver or Calca...
        mort96 6mo ago
        Yes you can write down the result of calculations and all relevant state and then clear the state of the calculator window before doing a new calculation. But why?
  - igregoryca 6mo ago
    The (shift+)cmd+` order also resets to match the window z-order whenever you switch apps. So if the order is windows A, B, C, then you select window B, cmd+tab away, then cmd+tab back, the order will now be B, A, C. I've developed an intuitive understanding of this, but I had to experiment just now to describe the behavior precisely. And my intuition is still wrong sometimes (like if the app has windows on multiple monitors, it's hard to predict the z-order). > if I Slack open in Firefox in workspace 1 and Outlook open in Firefox in workspace 2, there is no way to switch between Slack and Outlook My local maximum is to never use workspaces – just cmd+tab, cmd+`, and sometimes cmd+h to reduce screen clutter.
lossyalgo 6mo ago
Have your teammates also discovered how macOS handles copy/pasting a folder when the destination folder already exists? How macOS just deletes the entire contents of the destination folder, instead of merging? I remember discovering that for the first time :(
donfotto 6mo ago
Exactly! "It just works" used to be true for macos, and linux was for tinkering. Now, ubuntu "just works" (and fast!). It's not just that macos is slow and window management is strange. Last time I had a macbook (M2 pro) I needed 3rd party software just to use a 4k external monitor without blurring.