4 ms·

Windows is cleaning up a lot of legacy drivers. A bunch of printers (+ scanners) that predate updates to the printer driver framework in recent versions of win

Windows is cleaning up a lot of legacy drivers. A bunch of printers (+ scanners) that predate updates to the printer driver framework in recent versions of windows just don't have functioning drivers anymore, despite being perfectly functional. All these devices work out of the box on linux, more or less.

bluebarbet 6mo ago
Most devices that you can buy for under $400 now run on ARM chips (frequently Mediatek). We're talking tablets (with keyboards), convertibles, even outright laptops (i.e. "netbooks"). These things qualify as computers. They are replacing traditional laptops, just as those replaced desktops. And they do not run Linux out of the box.
- yjftsjthsd-h 6mo ago
  If we're looking at sub-$400 computers, especially on ARM, it seems like we have to include the large segment of ChromeOS devices that only run Linux out of the box (or at all, generally).
  - bluebarbet 6mo ago
    Referring to Intel Chromebooks (i.e. laptops), that segment is now dwindling in size much as its predecessor (Intel Windows netbooks) did a few years ago. Most low-end ChromeOS devices now run on ARM. And Android is nipping at their heels.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 6mo ago
      Sure. And all of those devices run Linux. Some of them even run other Linux OSs decently; one of my daily drivers is an ARM Chromebook running postmarketos.
      - bluebarbet 6mo ago
        It is not trivial to get FOSS Linux onto a write-protected Intel Chromebook, compared to a Windows netbook of yore. It is harder still to get it onto an ARM Chromebook or Android tablet. PostmarketOS is a bit simpler (or at least better documented) but it is not a full Linux distro. Installing a fully-fledged FOSS OS on low-end general-purpose computing hardware is getting harder. Certainly for the non-techies who have to be part of FOSS if it is to survive.
        yjftsjthsd-h 6mo ago
        I think it's better and worse in slightly different ways. On the one hand, yeah a Chromebook won't let you touch the default OS without switching to developer mode, and won't let you install a new OS without disabling the write-protect screw or firmware option. On the other hand, every ChromeOS device allows you to do exactly that, and then you can run whatever you want and you should have at least some support for upstream Linux because ChromeOS upstreams their drivers. (I will happily agree that the Android device situation is awful.) > PostmarketOS is a bit simpler (or at least better documented) but it is not a full Linux distro. By what definition is PMOS not a "full" distro? It's Alpine plus some extra stuff, including device tweaks and out-of-the-box desktop environments.
        bluebarbet 6mo ago
        >By what definition is PMOS not a "full" distro? Can it run Sway window manager? Honest question.
        yjftsjthsd-h 6mo ago
        Sure? Either standalone ( https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Sway https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Sway ) or with sxmo ( https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Sxmo https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Sxmo ) which is probably preferred on phones.
        6mo ago
    - trelane 6mo ago
      > Intel Windows netbooks Netbooks were originally Linux. MSFT created a special licensing class just to try to undercut it. It wasn't great, but because Windows and Microsoft licensing, it quickly took off. People realized Windows on netbooks sucks, thought that meant that netbooks sucked, and eventually netbooks died. Until, arguably, ChromeOS arrived. RIP, Linux netbooks of yore. I do miss you so.
- ux266478 6mo ago
  Most devices in that class I see run some vendor flavor of Android or ChromeOS and not Windows, so definitionally speaking they do run Linux out of the box.
  - bluebarbet 6mo ago
    Yes but it's a bit academic. The problem is that getting a FOSS distro of Linux onto low-end general-purpose computing hardware is harder now than it was a decade ago. I speak from bitter recent experience.
    - ux266478 6mo ago
      Oh, I know perfectly well what you mean. The move to the SoC paradigm has serious implications for the future of computing freedom. I can't imagine how we might be able to fight this crap, realistically.

bluebarbet 6mo ago

Most devices that you can buy for under $400 now run on ARM chips (frequently Mediatek). We're talking tablets (with keyboards), convertibles, even outright laptops (i.e. "netbooks"). These things qualify as computers. They are replacing traditional laptops, just as those replaced desktops. And they do not run Linux out of the box.

yjftsjthsd-h 6mo ago
If we're looking at sub-$400 computers, especially on ARM, it seems like we have to include the large segment of ChromeOS devices that only run Linux out of the box (or at all, generally).
- bluebarbet 6mo ago
  Referring to Intel Chromebooks (i.e. laptops), that segment is now dwindling in size much as its predecessor (Intel Windows netbooks) did a few years ago. Most low-end ChromeOS devices now run on ARM. And Android is nipping at their heels.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 6mo ago
    Sure. And all of those devices run Linux. Some of them even run other Linux OSs decently; one of my daily drivers is an ARM Chromebook running postmarketos.
    - bluebarbet 6mo ago
      It is not trivial to get FOSS Linux onto a write-protected Intel Chromebook, compared to a Windows netbook of yore. It is harder still to get it onto an ARM Chromebook or Android tablet. PostmarketOS is a bit simpler (or at least better documented) but it is not a full Linux distro. Installing a fully-fledged FOSS OS on low-end general-purpose computing hardware is getting harder. Certainly for the non-techies who have to be part of FOSS if it is to survive.
      - yjftsjthsd-h 6mo ago
        I think it's better and worse in slightly different ways. On the one hand, yeah a Chromebook won't let you touch the default OS without switching to developer mode, and won't let you install a new OS without disabling the write-protect screw or firmware option. On the other hand, every ChromeOS device allows you to do exactly that, and then you can run whatever you want and you should have at least some support for upstream Linux because ChromeOS upstreams their drivers. (I will happily agree that the Android device situation is awful.) > PostmarketOS is a bit simpler (or at least better documented) but it is not a full Linux distro. By what definition is PMOS not a "full" distro? It's Alpine plus some extra stuff, including device tweaks and out-of-the-box desktop environments.
        bluebarbet 6mo ago
        >By what definition is PMOS not a "full" distro? Can it run Sway window manager? Honest question.
        yjftsjthsd-h 6mo ago
        Sure? Either standalone ( https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Sway https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Sway ) or with sxmo ( https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Sxmo https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Sxmo ) which is probably preferred on phones.
        6mo ago
  - trelane 6mo ago
    > Intel Windows netbooks Netbooks were originally Linux. MSFT created a special licensing class just to try to undercut it. It wasn't great, but because Windows and Microsoft licensing, it quickly took off. People realized Windows on netbooks sucks, thought that meant that netbooks sucked, and eventually netbooks died. Until, arguably, ChromeOS arrived. RIP, Linux netbooks of yore. I do miss you so.
ux266478 6mo ago
Most devices in that class I see run some vendor flavor of Android or ChromeOS and not Windows, so definitionally speaking they do run Linux out of the box.
- bluebarbet 6mo ago
  Yes but it's a bit academic. The problem is that getting a FOSS distro of Linux onto low-end general-purpose computing hardware is harder now than it was a decade ago. I speak from bitter recent experience.
  - ux266478 6mo ago
    Oh, I know perfectly well what you mean. The move to the SoC paradigm has serious implications for the future of computing freedom. I can't imagine how we might be able to fight this crap, realistically.