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Mozilla tried to kill Thunderbird in 2020. They've been talking about not sponsoring it all since 2015. They might have the money, but they don't really seem t

by shakna 7mo ago

Mozilla tried to kill Thunderbird in 2020. They've been talking about not sponsoring it all since 2015. They might have the money, but they don't really seem to want anything to do with the project.

OhioMan2943 7mo ago
Mozilla doesn't have the willpower or vision to do anything with anything.
- mb_thd 7mo ago
  Don't be so harsh on them. (\s) They show lots of willpower and some sort of vision when talking about AI in Firefox.
  - antisol 7mo ago
    Don't forget telemetry! The makers of the "privacy-focused browser" were super strong-willed about that, too.
    - hackingonempty 7mo ago
      It is important that they know exactly how many users are permanently switching to Chrome.
      - antisol 7mo ago
        omg best thing I've read all day. Thanks for the good long out-loud laugh <3
- Diti 7mo ago
  I like those two comments giving context on what has happened 10 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46118243 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46118243 (parent and child comment).
antisol 7mo ago
Good! I hope they do "kill it off" so that someone who isn't totally incompetent can fork it and take it over.
- Vinnl 7mo ago
  That's basically how you could describe what happened. Those competent people are using Mozilla's infrastructure and trademarks, but otherwise running on donations.
  - antisol 7mo ago
    Then how come everything they've done in the last 10 years has been garbage?
    - bguebert 7mo ago
      calling it garbage seems kinda harsh, but I think they are moving more to using a javascript rendering method instead of xul. I remember reading about it a while back. I don't really like it either and one of the first updates from back then broke a lot of UI that had been working ok. I am not really sure what the problems are with working with xul though, but I think firefox moved off it a long time ago too. I feel like thunderbird's user base is more the type to want to use thunderbird because it runs like a local first desktop style app as an alternative to using a web interface to their email. At least that's what I like about it.
      - antisol 7mo ago
        > they are moving more to using a javascript rendering method instead of xul Yeah, that's what I said: garbage. > I am not really sure what the problems are with working with xul though I'm sure they'll yell "for teh securitah!" in a bunch of vague fearmongering, just like they did with firefox. But the #1 and #2 problems are that it's not shiny and new and the CADT brigade[1] only knows javascript. > I think firefox moved off it a long time ago too I wouldn't call it "a long time ago", but I guess that depends on your perspective. And that's the moment when firefox became garbage - just another chrome-alike, except slower and more resource-hungry. It had been getting worse for a decade prior to that, but dropping xul and breaking a ton of my extensions and customisability was the (large) straw that broke the camel's back. Sound familiar yet? > I feel like thunderbird's user base is more the type to want to use thunderbird because it runs like a local first desktop style app as an alternative to using a web interface to their email. At least that's what I like about it. Exactly. Which is why moving their UI to a worse, javascript-powered, uncustomisable, web-alike trash UI is a bad thing. And a big part of why everything they've done in the last ~10 years has been garbage. And why I'll almost certainly be switching to something that isn't thunderbird next time I'm forced to upgrade it. (forgive my tone, nothing against you, I just get emotional when morons take an excellent piece of software I've been using for decades and turn it into broken, unusable trash) [1] https://www.jwz.org/doc/cadt.html https://www.jwz.org/doc/cadt.html

by shakna 7mo ago

Mozilla tried to kill Thunderbird in 2020. They've been talking about not sponsoring it all since 2015. They might have the money, but they don't really seem to want anything to do with the project.

OhioMan2943 7mo ago

Mozilla doesn't have the willpower or vision to do anything with anything.

mb_thd 7mo ago
Don't be so harsh on them. (\s) They show lots of willpower and some sort of vision when talking about AI in Firefox.
- antisol 7mo ago
  Don't forget telemetry! The makers of the "privacy-focused browser" were super strong-willed about that, too.
  - hackingonempty 7mo ago
    It is important that they know exactly how many users are permanently switching to Chrome.
    - antisol 7mo ago
      omg best thing I've read all day. Thanks for the good long out-loud laugh <3
Diti 7mo ago
I like those two comments giving context on what has happened 10 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46118243 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46118243 (parent and child comment).

antisol 7mo ago

Good! I hope they do "kill it off" so that someone who isn't totally incompetent can fork it and take it over.

Vinnl 7mo ago
That's basically how you could describe what happened. Those competent people are using Mozilla's infrastructure and trademarks, but otherwise running on donations.
- antisol 7mo ago
  Then how come everything they've done in the last 10 years has been garbage?
  - bguebert 7mo ago
    calling it garbage seems kinda harsh, but I think they are moving more to using a javascript rendering method instead of xul. I remember reading about it a while back. I don't really like it either and one of the first updates from back then broke a lot of UI that had been working ok. I am not really sure what the problems are with working with xul though, but I think firefox moved off it a long time ago too. I feel like thunderbird's user base is more the type to want to use thunderbird because it runs like a local first desktop style app as an alternative to using a web interface to their email. At least that's what I like about it.
    - antisol 7mo ago
      > they are moving more to using a javascript rendering method instead of xul Yeah, that's what I said: garbage. > I am not really sure what the problems are with working with xul though I'm sure they'll yell "for teh securitah!" in a bunch of vague fearmongering, just like they did with firefox. But the #1 and #2 problems are that it's not shiny and new and the CADT brigade[1] only knows javascript. > I think firefox moved off it a long time ago too I wouldn't call it "a long time ago", but I guess that depends on your perspective. And that's the moment when firefox became garbage - just another chrome-alike, except slower and more resource-hungry. It had been getting worse for a decade prior to that, but dropping xul and breaking a ton of my extensions and customisability was the (large) straw that broke the camel's back. Sound familiar yet? > I feel like thunderbird's user base is more the type to want to use thunderbird because it runs like a local first desktop style app as an alternative to using a web interface to their email. At least that's what I like about it. Exactly. Which is why moving their UI to a worse, javascript-powered, uncustomisable, web-alike trash UI is a bad thing. And a big part of why everything they've done in the last ~10 years has been garbage. And why I'll almost certainly be switching to something that isn't thunderbird next time I'm forced to upgrade it. (forgive my tone, nothing against you, I just get emotional when morons take an excellent piece of software I've been using for decades and turn it into broken, unusable trash) [1] https://www.jwz.org/doc/cadt.html https://www.jwz.org/doc/cadt.html