5 ms·

>More regulation won't help here, because the regulation-maker is itself the hostile party. It's easy to paint the big gov as bad, but this is a case where unf

>More regulation won't help here, because the regulation-maker is itself the hostile party. It's easy to paint the big gov as bad, but this is a case where unfortunately the populace seems to be in agreement with the big bad gov. While most US citizens support encryption, 76% or so, the vast majority 63% also favor government "backdoor" access for national security reasons. I guess either we believe in democracy or we don't. It could be said that if Veracrypt isn't/can't be backdoor'd, perhaps the gov is simply implementing the will of the people :( via Microsoft.

koliber 6mo ago
Tyranny of majority is a thing. It's something mature democracies are aware of and have the ability to defend against. We're in an interesting spot here and the tension is tangible.
phatfish 6mo ago
What does democracy have to do with electronic encryption? Democracy existed before computers. There are legitimate reasons for governments to intercept information, with the correct oversight -- enforced legally in an "checks and balances" manner. The fact that there is a breakdown of trust between government and people won't be solved with more encryption.
- aeternum 6mo ago
  A core tenet of Truecrypt + Veracrypt (developer guarantee) has always been no backdoors, even if requested by government. If in a democratic society, the majority agrees that government should have backdoors (with the correct oversight). Then it follows that Veracrypt should be illegal as its use is not in alignment with the will of the majority. I personally don't agree with the majority here but can you fault the logic?
  - nostrademons 6mo ago
    Most forms of democracy do not have a direct correspondence between "the will of the people" and the actual policies enacted. As another poster mentioned, tyranny of the majority is a thing, and robust democracies have evolved institutions to deal with it. Otherwise there's nothing stopping the majority from periodically voting the minority off the island, Survivor style, until only a single dictator remains. In the U.S. in particular, there's strong respect for individual rights enshrined in the Constitution, and a key role of the judicial branch is ensuring that those rights are respected regardless of what the majority thinks. The majority cannot enslave the minority, for example, regardless of what the legislature votes. Nor can it deprive it of speech or free assembly, or guns, or a right to trial by jury.
    - aeternum 6mo ago
      Ah so the iron law of oligarchy becomes our salvation if only it were so simple
    - cacophony1977 6mo ago
      It's pretty hilarious to me that you think the Constitution is anything more than a piece of paper. Or that the judicial branch cannot be co-opted. It's not magic champ. It's maintained by consensus.
  - MegagramEnjoyer 6mo ago
    That's why specialized agencies exist within the government body: FCC, FDA, etc. aka leave it to the experts because the majority isn't qualified to make such decisions.
bigfishrunning 6mo ago
> vast majority 63% also favor government "backdoor" access for national security reasons. Don't do math that way! That math is illegal! Good boys and girls don't keep secrets! These people sound ridiculous
account42 6mo ago
Does the majority of the population even have a self-formed opinion on this or are they just parroting what the media tells them (which in many "democratic" countries is directly or indirectly controlled by the government, i.e. propaganda).
- jasomill 6mo ago
  American People Shrug, Line Up For Fingerprinting WASHINGTON, DC—Assuming that there must be a good reason for the order, U.S. citizens lined up at elementary schools and community centers across the nation Monday for government-mandated fingerprinting. “I’m not exactly sure what this is all about,” said Ft. Smith, AR, resident Meredith Lovell while waiting in line. “But given all the crazy stuff that’s going on these days, I’m sure the government has a very good reason.” Said Amos Hawkins, a Rockford, IL, delivery driver: “I guess this is another thing they have to do to ensure our freedom.” (source: The Onion, October 9, 2002[1]) [1] https://theonion.com/american-people-shrug-line-up-for-fingerprinting-1819566605/ https://theonion.com/american-people-shrug-line-up-for-finge...
joepie91_ 6mo ago
I'd be very wary about such specific surveys, because they're often very much not conducted in a scientifically responsible manner, and based on actual studies across the spectrum of political issues there's basically no alignment between public opinion/preferences and actual policymaking in the US. Could this be the one exceptional case where people agree with the direction of policymaking? Sure. Is that likely? No, not really.

koliber 6mo ago

Tyranny of majority is a thing. It's something mature democracies are aware of and have the ability to defend against. We're in an interesting spot here and the tension is tangible.

phatfish 6mo ago

What does democracy have to do with electronic encryption? Democracy existed before computers. There are legitimate reasons for governments to intercept information, with the correct oversight -- enforced legally in an "checks and balances" manner. The fact that there is a breakdown of trust between government and people won't be solved with more encryption.

aeternum 6mo ago
A core tenet of Truecrypt + Veracrypt (developer guarantee) has always been no backdoors, even if requested by government. If in a democratic society, the majority agrees that government should have backdoors (with the correct oversight). Then it follows that Veracrypt should be illegal as its use is not in alignment with the will of the majority. I personally don't agree with the majority here but can you fault the logic?
- nostrademons 6mo ago
  Most forms of democracy do not have a direct correspondence between "the will of the people" and the actual policies enacted. As another poster mentioned, tyranny of the majority is a thing, and robust democracies have evolved institutions to deal with it. Otherwise there's nothing stopping the majority from periodically voting the minority off the island, Survivor style, until only a single dictator remains. In the U.S. in particular, there's strong respect for individual rights enshrined in the Constitution, and a key role of the judicial branch is ensuring that those rights are respected regardless of what the majority thinks. The majority cannot enslave the minority, for example, regardless of what the legislature votes. Nor can it deprive it of speech or free assembly, or guns, or a right to trial by jury.
  - aeternum 6mo ago
    Ah so the iron law of oligarchy becomes our salvation if only it were so simple
  - cacophony1977 6mo ago
    It's pretty hilarious to me that you think the Constitution is anything more than a piece of paper. Or that the judicial branch cannot be co-opted. It's not magic champ. It's maintained by consensus.
- MegagramEnjoyer 6mo ago
  That's why specialized agencies exist within the government body: FCC, FDA, etc. aka leave it to the experts because the majority isn't qualified to make such decisions.

bigfishrunning 6mo ago

> vast majority 63% also favor government "backdoor" access for national security reasons. Don't do math that way! That math is illegal! Good boys and girls don't keep secrets! These people sound ridiculous

account42 6mo ago

Does the majority of the population even have a self-formed opinion on this or are they just parroting what the media tells them (which in many "democratic" countries is directly or indirectly controlled by the government, i.e. propaganda).

jasomill 6mo ago
American People Shrug, Line Up For Fingerprinting WASHINGTON, DC—Assuming that there must be a good reason for the order, U.S. citizens lined up at elementary schools and community centers across the nation Monday for government-mandated fingerprinting. “I’m not exactly sure what this is all about,” said Ft. Smith, AR, resident Meredith Lovell while waiting in line. “But given all the crazy stuff that’s going on these days, I’m sure the government has a very good reason.” Said Amos Hawkins, a Rockford, IL, delivery driver: “I guess this is another thing they have to do to ensure our freedom.” (source: The Onion, October 9, 2002[1]) [1] https://theonion.com/american-people-shrug-line-up-for-fingerprinting-1819566605/ https://theonion.com/american-people-shrug-line-up-for-finge...

joepie91_ 6mo ago

I'd be very wary about such specific surveys, because they're often very much not conducted in a scientifically responsible manner, and based on actual studies across the spectrum of political issues there's basically no alignment between public opinion/preferences and actual policymaking in the US. Could this be the one exceptional case where people agree with the direction of policymaking? Sure. Is that likely? No, not really.