5 ms·

Yeas ago I motorcycled a lot, all over the world. I escalated to an air horn and hi-viz. But I pretty quickly realized that these made no tangible difference to

Yeas ago I motorcycled a lot, all over the world. I escalated to an air horn and hi-viz. But I pretty quickly realized that these made no tangible difference to the behavior of larger vehicle drivers. So I ended up for later vehicles with a stock horn and hi-viz only for heavy rain. These days our family cycles a lot for commuting. It’s really easy to observe that people in vehicles treat us far better if we look like humans, wearing normal street clothes, rather than wearing high-viz or, far worse, cycling gear. The bike bell is for polite notice, not alarming. The best alarm system you have is your voice, which is variable volume and tone. For ultimate effect slap the panels of cars, as it is very loud inside the vehicle.

Joe_Cool 6mo ago
Sadly I had to kick a few cars that thought they could run me off my motorcycle. Worked every time. All of them didn't look out the window or they would have looked right into my face. Yelling and horn did absolutely nothing. Most of them were extremely apologetic or even shocked (as if I appeared from thin air). None of them were angry for scratching their door. Some people are just lost in thought it seems...
- Swizec 6mo ago
  > or even shocked (as if I appeared from thin air) Motorcyclists are invisible. Never rely on others seeing you, ride as if they're an obstacle you have to navigate. You can hide a whole truck behind the A-pillar of modern cars, let alone a motorcycle. At certain angles, human eyes have complete blind spots that we're not aware of because our brain filters them out. Motorcycles fit perfectly into those. Never hover in people's blind spots. Pass quickly or stay back. Do not drive parallel with another vehicle. Goes for cars too. When approaching another car perpendicularly (like an intersection), remember that humans lose depth perception because their nose covers one of the eyes. A driver literally cannot tell how far you are. Our usual proxy is the distance between headlights. Motorcyles have 1 headlight so this heuristic doesn't work, but we don't realize that it doesn't. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x94PGgYKHQ0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x94PGgYKHQ0
  - Joe_Cool 6mo ago
    Oh I know. They look at me while turning left cutting me off. Maybe I need a bigger bike, the 2cyl 400cc is particularly invisible. ;) Best one was a woman who cut me off doing her left turn. I high-beamed her and honked. She put her hands in front of her face and came to a dead stop in my lane directly in front of me. I was already braking before I honked. Nothing happened. I stopped wondering and just assume everyone is out to kill me. It's a rule that also applies to bicycles.
    - Swizec 6mo ago
      > I high-beamed her and honked. She put her hands in front of her face and came to a dead stop in my lane directly in front of me. Personally I skip the honking and high beams. Just perform evasive action assuming driver will continue on their current path at roughly their current speed. Swerving behind their path of travel usually works great. Spooked drivers behave erratically. Very dangerous. So far I've had 0 serious incidents in ~8 years of riding. A couple close calls when I was being an idiot. So I think my approach is working :)
      - Joe_Cool 6mo ago
        Honking is more for the people behind/around me. I also don't want to be hit by inattentive people following me to closely. May I ask where you are riding? I am currently in Bavaria. The danger level is usually higher after the winter. Drivers need to re-accustom themselves to sharing the road with two wheeled riders. Evasive action could be even more dangerous in cities. In my experience being able to come to a stop without hitting anything is even better. Lot's of dead people had the right of way. Ride safe, I agree. I also had 0 accidents so far in 30 years. But you still experience new things you hadn't thought would be an issue.
        Swizec 6mo ago
        > May I ask where you are riding? San Francisco Bay Area. I never got into motorcycling back in Europe although the roads are lovely, the short riding season felt like a deterrent. Also the extremely long process to get a license. Here in CA it was almost scary easy to get M certified.
AlotOfReading 6mo ago
Slapping panels in the US will occasionally get people trying to fight you, as I've had happen. Not really sure what a good solution to that looks like short of cultural changes.
- kccqzy 6mo ago
  As a pedestrian I slapped a panel of a slow car that failed to yield to me at a crossing. The driver glared at me and looked ready to reverse into me. I never slapped any panel any more.
LorenPechtel 6mo ago
Second the fact that it's only useful for polite notice. Emergency, someone's already not paying attention and it's probably the car. Car horns are useful warnings because speeds are higher and thus stopping time is longer--more opportunity for someone to hear and react.

Joe_Cool 6mo ago

Sadly I had to kick a few cars that thought they could run me off my motorcycle. Worked every time. All of them didn't look out the window or they would have looked right into my face. Yelling and horn did absolutely nothing. Most of them were extremely apologetic or even shocked (as if I appeared from thin air). None of them were angry for scratching their door. Some people are just lost in thought it seems...

Swizec 6mo ago
> or even shocked (as if I appeared from thin air) Motorcyclists are invisible. Never rely on others seeing you, ride as if they're an obstacle you have to navigate. You can hide a whole truck behind the A-pillar of modern cars, let alone a motorcycle. At certain angles, human eyes have complete blind spots that we're not aware of because our brain filters them out. Motorcycles fit perfectly into those. Never hover in people's blind spots. Pass quickly or stay back. Do not drive parallel with another vehicle. Goes for cars too. When approaching another car perpendicularly (like an intersection), remember that humans lose depth perception because their nose covers one of the eyes. A driver literally cannot tell how far you are. Our usual proxy is the distance between headlights. Motorcyles have 1 headlight so this heuristic doesn't work, but we don't realize that it doesn't. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x94PGgYKHQ0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x94PGgYKHQ0
- Joe_Cool 6mo ago
  Oh I know. They look at me while turning left cutting me off. Maybe I need a bigger bike, the 2cyl 400cc is particularly invisible. ;) Best one was a woman who cut me off doing her left turn. I high-beamed her and honked. She put her hands in front of her face and came to a dead stop in my lane directly in front of me. I was already braking before I honked. Nothing happened. I stopped wondering and just assume everyone is out to kill me. It's a rule that also applies to bicycles.
  - Swizec 6mo ago
    > I high-beamed her and honked. She put her hands in front of her face and came to a dead stop in my lane directly in front of me. Personally I skip the honking and high beams. Just perform evasive action assuming driver will continue on their current path at roughly their current speed. Swerving behind their path of travel usually works great. Spooked drivers behave erratically. Very dangerous. So far I've had 0 serious incidents in ~8 years of riding. A couple close calls when I was being an idiot. So I think my approach is working :)
    - Joe_Cool 6mo ago
      Honking is more for the people behind/around me. I also don't want to be hit by inattentive people following me to closely. May I ask where you are riding? I am currently in Bavaria. The danger level is usually higher after the winter. Drivers need to re-accustom themselves to sharing the road with two wheeled riders. Evasive action could be even more dangerous in cities. In my experience being able to come to a stop without hitting anything is even better. Lot's of dead people had the right of way. Ride safe, I agree. I also had 0 accidents so far in 30 years. But you still experience new things you hadn't thought would be an issue.
      - Swizec 6mo ago
        > May I ask where you are riding? San Francisco Bay Area. I never got into motorcycling back in Europe although the roads are lovely, the short riding season felt like a deterrent. Also the extremely long process to get a license. Here in CA it was almost scary easy to get M certified.

AlotOfReading 6mo ago

Slapping panels in the US will occasionally get people trying to fight you, as I've had happen. Not really sure what a good solution to that looks like short of cultural changes.

kccqzy 6mo ago
As a pedestrian I slapped a panel of a slow car that failed to yield to me at a crossing. The driver glared at me and looked ready to reverse into me. I never slapped any panel any more.

LorenPechtel 6mo ago

Second the fact that it's only useful for polite notice. Emergency, someone's already not paying attention and it's probably the car. Car horns are useful warnings because speeds are higher and thus stopping time is longer--more opportunity for someone to hear and react.