5 ms·

This is much less concerning to me than mass surveillance. If someone calls 911 and you need to send a first responder, why not send a drone to get there faster

by jonas21 6mo ago

This is much less concerning to me than mass surveillance. If someone calls 911 and you need to send a first responder, why not send a drone to get there faster while a person is on their way?

sheiyei 6mo ago
As a concept, first responder drones are a good idea. But I wouldn't want public services having anything to do with that company.
jeffbee 6mo ago
Yeah this doesn't bother me in any way, shape, or form. We already have manned aircraft that respond to such things, unmanned aircraft are a strictly better solution. It makes sense for police and it makes even more sense for fire. An aircraft can arrive at the site of a reported fire while firemen are still buckling their pants.
- dmbche 6mo ago
  You get manned aircraft to come and check in before the police when you call 911?
  - jeffbee 6mo ago
    Yes, often the first response to some calls is a CHP aircraft that continuously loiters in the area.
  - dghlsakjg 6mo ago
    In high school in the mid 2000s in Denver, they had a chopper in the air on weekend nights from 8 until 2:30 am or so. When our parties got called in, the spotlight would be the warning that the cops were a few minutes away and it was time to run. Lots of cities have manned aircraft loitering during busy times that will respond to a call before ground units
- platevoltage 6mo ago
  There is an endless list of infractions to civil liberties that would "Make sense for police".
zoklet-enjoyer 6mo ago
And then what? Hover over me as I'm dying?
- tux1968 6mo ago
  Yes. If you called from your cell phone while on foot or in your car, the drone can find your exact location and hover over you until help arrives, quicker than if EMS has to search you out themselves.
  - zoklet-enjoyer 6mo ago
    Ok. I live in a small, flat city with few trees. So why did my police department buy these?
    - tux1968 6mo ago
      Obviously I don't know the specifics of your city, but in general there are a lot of scenarios where it's valuable to get to a scene very quickly (no traffic, etc.) and obtain reconnaissance. Especially violent scenes, or it could even be a drunk driver who is still on the move, or a stolen car where the perpetrators are likely to flee on foot if stopped. I'm sure you can come up with a lot more ideas using your imagination.
      - zoklet-enjoyer 6mo ago
        Sounds like a scam
      - tadfisher 6mo ago
        Thanks for the explanation. I will ask my local city council to spend the money elsewhere.
    - scottyah 6mo ago
      Can they drive straight to you at 60mph without stopping?
wiether 6mo ago
At least their current cameras are fixed to a single point. With their drones they now have cameras roaming freely everywhere.
pesus 6mo ago
If the drones are "providing information" to the police, it's only a matter of time before their AI hallucinates something that gets someone killed. We've already seen AI gun detection services that report things like Doritos bags as guns.
- scottyah 6mo ago
  [flagged]
  - Quinner 6mo ago
    Those people have proven very untrustworthy and are structurally unaccountable.
  - thomastjeffery 6mo ago
    You are giving those people the benefit of the doubt. It's been proven many many times that police will use "more information" to excuse their own decision to use violence. A decision that they already made well before the incident.
  - pesus 6mo ago
    It's more "sus" that you blindly trust the police, politicians, and billionaires that have a history of discrimination, violence, and oppression and attempt to slander those who don't. Not to mention blindly trusting AI systems with someone's life - the only reason one would do that is because they either stand to profit from it or don't understand how they work. Are you really willing and eager to put your life in the hands of a piece of software that can't distinguish a gun and a Doritos bag? Remember, oppression and invasion of privacy is still bad even if it isn't currently happening to you. If you think you can't be a target, you're sorely mistaken.
  - _DeadFred_ 6mo ago
    If you give me long enough, I can find something to charge anyone with.
  - goatlover 6mo ago
chaps 6mo ago
I'm sorry but, in what way is a swarm of surveillance drones NOT a mass surveillance system?
dmbche 6mo ago
What's the drone gonna do?
- ThaDood 6mo ago
  Likely: Scan everyone's home while en-route to the 911 call with an infrared camera. Or scan all of the license plates and faces of people along the way. Possible: Perhaps crash into someone? Or worse.
  - HWR_14 6mo ago
    > Scan everyone's home while en-route to the 911 call with an infrared camera. That's unconstitutional. Use a regular camera and it's fine for some reason.
    - Breza 6mo ago
      US law is more murky if they are responding to a perceived emergency. That can give probable cause. Imagine someone calls 911 due to smoke coming out of the neighbor's house. Clearly the drone can legally use IR to look for fire in the house. But it gets complicated fast, which is what worries me. Now imagine a car backfires, a microphone array reports it as a gunshot, and a drone shows up and starts scanning the nearest apartment building.
- shostack 6mo ago
  Facial recognition scan for ICE
rudhdb773b 6mo ago
Because today it will be used as a first responder. Tomorrow a police officer will suggest that these drones (that we are already using successfully) could be very useful for checking up on that "dangerous" neighborhood.
- anskksdkdkdk 6mo ago
  [flagged]
  - tadfisher 6mo ago
    ...and now you have actual domestic surveillance bots, instead of the silent CIA Blackhawks we used to joke about.
- NoSalt 6mo ago
  Hello, James Cameron and his Dark Angel series: https://www.google.com/search?q=dark+angel+hoverdrone https://www.google.com/search?q=dark+angel+hoverdrone
- citruscomputing 6mo ago
  Hi, I'm in Denver. They're already doing this over on Colfax. It's a significant change vs the existing halo cameras, because they use the drones to follow people.
- cucumber3732842 6mo ago
  I'm not really worried about the police. There's mountains of well reinforced legal precedent restricting them. Sure they have violence, but they kind of need to show up to do that. All the other stuff they do runs up against your rights which are really well established. Even the "civil" traffic stuff is pretty hard fought, comparatively. Every other civil enforcer can basically fine you on a whim and then your appeal goes into a system that makes jim crow look impartial. So yeah, I'm not worried about the cops. I'm worried about the zoning office "fixing" a budget shortfall by fining people for unpermitted kiddie pools or whatever and in the 10yr it takes to get smacked down in court they'll have stolen the property of a ton of people. I'm dead serious. However bad you think it could be reality is worse. These non-LEO departments make the most sloppy podunk sheriff's office look like the FBI.

by jonas21 6mo ago

This is much less concerning to me than mass surveillance. If someone calls 911 and you need to send a first responder, why not send a drone to get there faster while a person is on their way?

sheiyei 6mo ago

As a concept, first responder drones are a good idea. But I wouldn't want public services having anything to do with that company.

jeffbee 6mo ago

Yeah this doesn't bother me in any way, shape, or form. We already have manned aircraft that respond to such things, unmanned aircraft are a strictly better solution. It makes sense for police and it makes even more sense for fire. An aircraft can arrive at the site of a reported fire while firemen are still buckling their pants.

dmbche 6mo ago
You get manned aircraft to come and check in before the police when you call 911?
- jeffbee 6mo ago
  Yes, often the first response to some calls is a CHP aircraft that continuously loiters in the area.
- dghlsakjg 6mo ago
  In high school in the mid 2000s in Denver, they had a chopper in the air on weekend nights from 8 until 2:30 am or so. When our parties got called in, the spotlight would be the warning that the cops were a few minutes away and it was time to run. Lots of cities have manned aircraft loitering during busy times that will respond to a call before ground units
platevoltage 6mo ago
There is an endless list of infractions to civil liberties that would "Make sense for police".

zoklet-enjoyer 6mo ago

And then what? Hover over me as I'm dying?

tux1968 6mo ago
Yes. If you called from your cell phone while on foot or in your car, the drone can find your exact location and hover over you until help arrives, quicker than if EMS has to search you out themselves.
- zoklet-enjoyer 6mo ago
  Ok. I live in a small, flat city with few trees. So why did my police department buy these?
  - tux1968 6mo ago
    Obviously I don't know the specifics of your city, but in general there are a lot of scenarios where it's valuable to get to a scene very quickly (no traffic, etc.) and obtain reconnaissance. Especially violent scenes, or it could even be a drunk driver who is still on the move, or a stolen car where the perpetrators are likely to flee on foot if stopped. I'm sure you can come up with a lot more ideas using your imagination.
    - zoklet-enjoyer 6mo ago
      Sounds like a scam
    - tadfisher 6mo ago
      Thanks for the explanation. I will ask my local city council to spend the money elsewhere.
  - scottyah 6mo ago
    Can they drive straight to you at 60mph without stopping?

wiether 6mo ago

At least their current cameras are fixed to a single point. With their drones they now have cameras roaming freely everywhere.

pesus 6mo ago

If the drones are "providing information" to the police, it's only a matter of time before their AI hallucinates something that gets someone killed. We've already seen AI gun detection services that report things like Doritos bags as guns.

scottyah 6mo ago
[flagged]
- Quinner 6mo ago
  Those people have proven very untrustworthy and are structurally unaccountable.
- thomastjeffery 6mo ago
  You are giving those people the benefit of the doubt. It's been proven many many times that police will use "more information" to excuse their own decision to use violence. A decision that they already made well before the incident.
- pesus 6mo ago
  It's more "sus" that you blindly trust the police, politicians, and billionaires that have a history of discrimination, violence, and oppression and attempt to slander those who don't. Not to mention blindly trusting AI systems with someone's life - the only reason one would do that is because they either stand to profit from it or don't understand how they work. Are you really willing and eager to put your life in the hands of a piece of software that can't distinguish a gun and a Doritos bag? Remember, oppression and invasion of privacy is still bad even if it isn't currently happening to you. If you think you can't be a target, you're sorely mistaken.
- _DeadFred_ 6mo ago
  If you give me long enough, I can find something to charge anyone with.
- goatlover 6mo ago

chaps 6mo ago

I'm sorry but, in what way is a swarm of surveillance drones NOT a mass surveillance system?

dmbche 6mo ago

What's the drone gonna do?

ThaDood 6mo ago
Likely: Scan everyone's home while en-route to the 911 call with an infrared camera. Or scan all of the license plates and faces of people along the way. Possible: Perhaps crash into someone? Or worse.
- HWR_14 6mo ago
  > Scan everyone's home while en-route to the 911 call with an infrared camera. That's unconstitutional. Use a regular camera and it's fine for some reason.
  - Breza 6mo ago
    US law is more murky if they are responding to a perceived emergency. That can give probable cause. Imagine someone calls 911 due to smoke coming out of the neighbor's house. Clearly the drone can legally use IR to look for fire in the house. But it gets complicated fast, which is what worries me. Now imagine a car backfires, a microphone array reports it as a gunshot, and a drone shows up and starts scanning the nearest apartment building.
shostack 6mo ago
Facial recognition scan for ICE

rudhdb773b 6mo ago

Because today it will be used as a first responder. Tomorrow a police officer will suggest that these drones (that we are already using successfully) could be very useful for checking up on that "dangerous" neighborhood.

anskksdkdkdk 6mo ago
[flagged]
- tadfisher 6mo ago
  ...and now you have actual domestic surveillance bots, instead of the silent CIA Blackhawks we used to joke about.
NoSalt 6mo ago
Hello, James Cameron and his Dark Angel series: https://www.google.com/search?q=dark+angel+hoverdrone https://www.google.com/search?q=dark+angel+hoverdrone
citruscomputing 6mo ago
Hi, I'm in Denver. They're already doing this over on Colfax. It's a significant change vs the existing halo cameras, because they use the drones to follow people.
cucumber3732842 6mo ago
I'm not really worried about the police. There's mountains of well reinforced legal precedent restricting them. Sure they have violence, but they kind of need to show up to do that. All the other stuff they do runs up against your rights which are really well established. Even the "civil" traffic stuff is pretty hard fought, comparatively. Every other civil enforcer can basically fine you on a whim and then your appeal goes into a system that makes jim crow look impartial. So yeah, I'm not worried about the cops. I'm worried about the zoning office "fixing" a budget shortfall by fining people for unpermitted kiddie pools or whatever and in the 10yr it takes to get smacked down in court they'll have stolen the property of a ton of people. I'm dead serious. However bad you think it could be reality is worse. These non-LEO departments make the most sloppy podunk sheriff's office look like the FBI.