7 ms·

We need a law that a human representative can be spoken to within 24 hours or directly when something critical happens. Also “there is no appeal possible” shou

by prox 6mo ago

We need a law that a human representative can be spoken to within 24 hours or directly when something critical happens. Also “there is no appeal possible” should be plain illegal.

gzread 6mo ago
In the EU, under GDPR, it is legally required to explain automated profiling.
- emsixteen 6mo ago
  How's that work? Got a link handy to explain to a dummy?
  - buzer 6mo ago
    Article 13(2)(f) "In addition to the information referred to in paragraph 1, the controller shall, at the time when personal data are obtained, provide the data subject with the following further information necessary to ensure fair and transparent processing: the existence of automated decision-making, including profiling, referred to in Article 22(1) and (4) and, at least in those cases, meaningful information about the logic involved, as well as the significance and the envisaged consequences of such processing for the data subject." EDPB Guidelines on automated decision making: https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/article29/items/612053 https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/article29/items/612053 especially page 25 is relevant C‑634/21 is also somewhat relevant to understand how courts have applied ADM in general context of credit reporting https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A62021CJ0634 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A... though it didn't specify what information actually needs to provided for 13(2)(f).
- ceejayoz 6mo ago
  We have a EU dev we tried to have submit a GDPR request for human review on something on Facebook. There’s no apparent mechanism to do so. Support was clueless. The privacy email address responded weeks later with “not out department”.
  - estimator7292 6mo ago
    That's because the correct department is legal. GDPR is a legal mechanism, not a support and privacy thing. "I'm doing it wrong and it doesn't work" means you're doing it wrong, not that it doesn't work.
    - ceejayoz 6mo ago
      Even Facebook calls them "privacy rights". And https://www.facebook.com/help/contact/178402648024363 https://www.facebook.com/help/contact/178402648024363 doesn't work either. Black hole, as far as I can determine. Their chatbot, when asked, sends you to https://help.meta.com/support/privacy/ https://help.meta.com/support/privacy/ and says: > To submit a GDPR objection request on Facebook, you can use the Privacy Rights Request channel. > Select Facebook as the product you want to submit an objection about. > Choose the option "How can I object to the use of my information" and follow the instructions. But that option doesn't exist.
  - gzread 6mo ago
    As expected. However, since it's the law, there's some way to enforce it.
beng-nl 6mo ago
I understand the sentiment, but.. do you realize how much more expensive that would make all these services? I don’t know the number. But personally I think using the services and ‘simply’ only use them if the disappearance isn’t catastrophic and have the price be low or free while it works isn’t too bad a trade-off. Admittedly that’s a big ‘if.’
- _imnothere 6mo ago
  They sure do earn enough money to afford whatever number that is on your mind.
- rangerelf 6mo ago
  If it's impossible for a service provider to even talk to its customers, why is it in operation at all?
- thefounder 6mo ago
  I don't think they would be so much more expensive but they would be less profitable for sure and perhaps less "innovative" as a big chunk of the profit will go into regulation stuff.
- prox 6mo ago
  These are usually multi billion dollar companies, they’ll be fine, stop worrying about them. Start worrying about the erosion of your rights as a consumer.
  - prmoustache 6mo ago
    I agree in that case but be wary with these kind of assessments. There are tons of regulations that are meant for big players but can also affect much smaller negatively. For instance I don't think to this day it is possible to operate a Mastodon server and be compliant with GPDR and the UK online safety Act. There was the famous case of LFGSS forum about to shut down due to the former, the forum was kind of saved by a group of individuals willing to take the risk but the founder stepped down from fear of legal risks. There hasn't been home raided and servers and personal computers seized yet but that doesn't mean it can't happen and technically any EU or UK volunteer hosting some forums or open source based social media that isn't GPDR or online safety act compliant could be at risk. For most I believe it is not that they don't want to be compliant but they aren't aware of that and/or don't have the technical means without further development on the software they are using and despite them not abiding to their own user rights, most of their users would be more sad to see them shutdown than the current status of not obeying the law.
burnt-resistor 6mo ago
Technofeudalism is what happens when grossly under-regulated anarcho-capitalism dominates rather than sustainable, more ordinary capitalism where government regulation is the supreme, minimized biased arbiter that keeps things fairer and sensible for the benefit of the many rather than the benefit of the few.
apple4ever 6mo ago
> Also “there is no appeal possible” should be plain illegal. This. There should always be an appeal, to a real human you can talk too (not just a form letter or email).

by prox 6mo ago

We need a law that a human representative can be spoken to within 24 hours or directly when something critical happens. Also “there is no appeal possible” should be plain illegal.

gzread 6mo ago

In the EU, under GDPR, it is legally required to explain automated profiling.

emsixteen 6mo ago
How's that work? Got a link handy to explain to a dummy?
- buzer 6mo ago
  Article 13(2)(f) "In addition to the information referred to in paragraph 1, the controller shall, at the time when personal data are obtained, provide the data subject with the following further information necessary to ensure fair and transparent processing: the existence of automated decision-making, including profiling, referred to in Article 22(1) and (4) and, at least in those cases, meaningful information about the logic involved, as well as the significance and the envisaged consequences of such processing for the data subject." EDPB Guidelines on automated decision making: https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/article29/items/612053 https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/article29/items/612053 especially page 25 is relevant C‑634/21 is also somewhat relevant to understand how courts have applied ADM in general context of credit reporting https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A62021CJ0634 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A... though it didn't specify what information actually needs to provided for 13(2)(f).
ceejayoz 6mo ago
We have a EU dev we tried to have submit a GDPR request for human review on something on Facebook. There’s no apparent mechanism to do so. Support was clueless. The privacy email address responded weeks later with “not out department”.
- estimator7292 6mo ago
  That's because the correct department is legal. GDPR is a legal mechanism, not a support and privacy thing. "I'm doing it wrong and it doesn't work" means you're doing it wrong, not that it doesn't work.
  - ceejayoz 6mo ago
    Even Facebook calls them "privacy rights". And https://www.facebook.com/help/contact/178402648024363 https://www.facebook.com/help/contact/178402648024363 doesn't work either. Black hole, as far as I can determine. Their chatbot, when asked, sends you to https://help.meta.com/support/privacy/ https://help.meta.com/support/privacy/ and says: > To submit a GDPR objection request on Facebook, you can use the Privacy Rights Request channel. > Select Facebook as the product you want to submit an objection about. > Choose the option "How can I object to the use of my information" and follow the instructions. But that option doesn't exist.
- gzread 6mo ago
  As expected. However, since it's the law, there's some way to enforce it.

beng-nl 6mo ago

I understand the sentiment, but.. do you realize how much more expensive that would make all these services? I don’t know the number. But personally I think using the services and ‘simply’ only use them if the disappearance isn’t catastrophic and have the price be low or free while it works isn’t too bad a trade-off. Admittedly that’s a big ‘if.’

_imnothere 6mo ago
They sure do earn enough money to afford whatever number that is on your mind.
rangerelf 6mo ago
If it's impossible for a service provider to even talk to its customers, why is it in operation at all?
thefounder 6mo ago
I don't think they would be so much more expensive but they would be less profitable for sure and perhaps less "innovative" as a big chunk of the profit will go into regulation stuff.
prox 6mo ago
These are usually multi billion dollar companies, they’ll be fine, stop worrying about them. Start worrying about the erosion of your rights as a consumer.
- prmoustache 6mo ago
  I agree in that case but be wary with these kind of assessments. There are tons of regulations that are meant for big players but can also affect much smaller negatively. For instance I don't think to this day it is possible to operate a Mastodon server and be compliant with GPDR and the UK online safety Act. There was the famous case of LFGSS forum about to shut down due to the former, the forum was kind of saved by a group of individuals willing to take the risk but the founder stepped down from fear of legal risks. There hasn't been home raided and servers and personal computers seized yet but that doesn't mean it can't happen and technically any EU or UK volunteer hosting some forums or open source based social media that isn't GPDR or online safety act compliant could be at risk. For most I believe it is not that they don't want to be compliant but they aren't aware of that and/or don't have the technical means without further development on the software they are using and despite them not abiding to their own user rights, most of their users would be more sad to see them shutdown than the current status of not obeying the law.

burnt-resistor 6mo ago

Technofeudalism is what happens when grossly under-regulated anarcho-capitalism dominates rather than sustainable, more ordinary capitalism where government regulation is the supreme, minimized biased arbiter that keeps things fairer and sensible for the benefit of the many rather than the benefit of the few.

apple4ever 6mo ago

> Also “there is no appeal possible” should be plain illegal. This. There should always be an appeal, to a real human you can talk too (not just a form letter or email).