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In the scenario presented (London, mostly not segregated bike paths), the solution is for the cyclist to ride in a way they're not endangering pedestrians. The

In the scenario presented (London, mostly not segregated bike paths), the solution is for the cyclist to ride in a way they're not endangering pedestrians. There's even a fairly recent UK law (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-highway-code-8-changes-you-need-to-know-from-29-january-2022 https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-highway-code-8-change...) that more or less says in a collision, the "stronger" road user is at fault unless proven otherwise. That applies to car v. cyclist as much as cyclist v. pedestrian.

mikkupikku 7mo ago
Political cyclists hate this because they think anybody who complains is just a car driver concern trolling, but having been hit by a cyclist I can attest to it being a real problem. Sure I wasn't in real risk of dying, but I was bruised and scraped up for a week after that. I've done my fair share of road cycling in my years, I don't do it now but I still cycle on trails. The way some cyclists push back on any criticism at all is very ideological, and a real problem for not just pedestrians (and drivers) but cyclists too, because the outspoken attitudes and public stunts of political cyclists breed a lot of contempt for cyclists broadly speaking, to the point where normies groan when I say I spent my weekend going on a trip with my bike, and still act weird when I explain I was on a rail-to-trail not clogging up a highway.
- micv 7mo ago
  It's one thing when you're a fit adult male and get hit by an idiot cycling recklessly on the pavement, it's another if you're a small child or frail through sickness or old age. I've seen a couple of very near misses that would have ended very badly for the pedestrian through no fault of their own. Saying this it's mostly teenagers in the idiot role from what I've seen and they are reckless by default.
  - red_admiral 7mo ago
    Although the truly reckless ones are now on their ~50mph tuned illegal scooters with a "yolo" cheap lithium battery.
    - micv 7mo ago
      Those things are terrifying. Someone's little scooter's wheel base is definitely not stable enough for that sort of speed. And that's before the battery fires.
  - jmalicki 7mo ago
    I've been nearly hit by a bicycle-messenger looking dude in San Francisco when I was crossing the street with a "walk" sign at a crosswalk and he blew through the red light at probably about 15mph, and I have plenty of other experiences like that. If you are running a red light at 15mph on a bicycle, dodging pedestrians, you are just an asshole - maybe you're slightly less dangerous than an SUV running a red light, but it is still completely not okay. There are dumb teenagers, which is one thing, but the aggressive "well, we're not emitting carbon, so we can do whatever we want crowd" is probably even more crappy and dangerous, since they're deliberate about it, and more present in areas with lots of pedestrians.
- izacus 7mo ago
  Did you consider that your talking about GROUPS of people where _some_ individuals from ALL groups regularly behave poorly and deserve criticism and action? Or is that too much of a nuance against tribal thinking?
  - mikkupikku 7mo ago
    Why do you think I'm not aware of this? Did I not just explain how different people who do the activity have different perspectives, priorities and proclivities? Did I not just explain how I disagree with the way some cyclists conduct themselves, while plainly being aware that not all cyclists are like this? Maybe none of this way apparent to you, despite it being plainly written out in simple English, because... I don't know actually. Can you explain your failure to read?
    - izacus 7mo ago
      And yet you immediately started with an anti-cyclist whine while ignoring pretty much everyone else. These debates are so stupidly tiresome.
      - mikkupikku 7mo ago
        You have brain worms, I started by explaining that I am a cyclist. Obviously not all cyclists are particular ones I disagree with.
        DANmode 6mo ago
        Parasites are more common than anyone’s comfortable with.
- Ylpertnodi 7mo ago
  > not clogging up a highway.
paulnpace 7mo ago
Years ago, SF pedestrians took care of this problem by punching bicyclists until they stopped riding their bicycles on the sidewalk.
angiolillo 7mo ago
> the "stronger" road user is at fault unless proven otherwise In general I agree with this, but a lot a lot depends on how "unless proven otherwise" is interpreted. If a driver is typically at fault when a pedestrian or cyclist unexpectedly moves into their path then it seems like that practically restricts cars to speeds close to biking or walking in many cities. Similarly, if a cyclist is typically at fault when a pedestrian unexpectedly moves into their path then it seems like that restricts bikes to speeds close to walking in many cities. This effectively pedestrianizes car lanes and bike lanes which would be lovely in some areas, but it also restricts travel to walking speeds which also has downsides if enforced across an entire city. Edit: after reading the post at https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-highway-code-8-changes-you-need-to-know-from-29-january-2022 https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-highway-code-8-change... the guidance seems to strike a reasonable balance: > People cycling, riding a horse or driving a horse-drawn vehicle should respect the safety of people walking in these spaces, but people walking should also take care not to obstruct or endanger them.
elAhmo 7mo ago
Writing as a regular cyclist, the other side is seemingly always the problem. Cars, cyclists, pedestrians, each of them thinks they are right and other side is wrong.
- gs17 7mo ago
  That seems to be exactly the case. As a pedestrian, my problem is the cyclists who think the sidewalk is for going faster than the speed limit and the bike lane is for pedestrians to dodge into. As a driver, it's cyclists who think "you can treat stop signs as yields if there's no traffic" means "stop signs are go signs, yield signs are go faster signs, there's no such thing as a red light". I'm sure if I biked, I'd be complaining about cars not seeing me and pedestrians being unpredictable and hogging the sidewalk. I'm sure if I was a train driver, I'd rant about cars blocking the tracks!
  - dahart 7mo ago
    > yield signs are go faster signs Reminds me of a good line from Starman…
looperhacks 7mo ago
Two of the three clips clearly show a bike-lane blocked by pedestrians. The third looks like a shared space - but blocked in a way where it seems reasonable to ask for space by ringing the bell?

mikkupikku 7mo ago

Political cyclists hate this because they think anybody who complains is just a car driver concern trolling, but having been hit by a cyclist I can attest to it being a real problem. Sure I wasn't in real risk of dying, but I was bruised and scraped up for a week after that. I've done my fair share of road cycling in my years, I don't do it now but I still cycle on trails. The way some cyclists push back on any criticism at all is very ideological, and a real problem for not just pedestrians (and drivers) but cyclists too, because the outspoken attitudes and public stunts of political cyclists breed a lot of contempt for cyclists broadly speaking, to the point where normies groan when I say I spent my weekend going on a trip with my bike, and still act weird when I explain I was on a rail-to-trail not clogging up a highway.

micv 7mo ago
It's one thing when you're a fit adult male and get hit by an idiot cycling recklessly on the pavement, it's another if you're a small child or frail through sickness or old age. I've seen a couple of very near misses that would have ended very badly for the pedestrian through no fault of their own. Saying this it's mostly teenagers in the idiot role from what I've seen and they are reckless by default.
- red_admiral 7mo ago
  Although the truly reckless ones are now on their ~50mph tuned illegal scooters with a "yolo" cheap lithium battery.
  - micv 7mo ago
    Those things are terrifying. Someone's little scooter's wheel base is definitely not stable enough for that sort of speed. And that's before the battery fires.
- jmalicki 7mo ago
  I've been nearly hit by a bicycle-messenger looking dude in San Francisco when I was crossing the street with a "walk" sign at a crosswalk and he blew through the red light at probably about 15mph, and I have plenty of other experiences like that. If you are running a red light at 15mph on a bicycle, dodging pedestrians, you are just an asshole - maybe you're slightly less dangerous than an SUV running a red light, but it is still completely not okay. There are dumb teenagers, which is one thing, but the aggressive "well, we're not emitting carbon, so we can do whatever we want crowd" is probably even more crappy and dangerous, since they're deliberate about it, and more present in areas with lots of pedestrians.
izacus 7mo ago
Did you consider that your talking about GROUPS of people where _some_ individuals from ALL groups regularly behave poorly and deserve criticism and action? Or is that too much of a nuance against tribal thinking?
- mikkupikku 7mo ago
  Why do you think I'm not aware of this? Did I not just explain how different people who do the activity have different perspectives, priorities and proclivities? Did I not just explain how I disagree with the way some cyclists conduct themselves, while plainly being aware that not all cyclists are like this? Maybe none of this way apparent to you, despite it being plainly written out in simple English, because... I don't know actually. Can you explain your failure to read?
  - izacus 7mo ago
    And yet you immediately started with an anti-cyclist whine while ignoring pretty much everyone else. These debates are so stupidly tiresome.
    - mikkupikku 7mo ago
      You have brain worms, I started by explaining that I am a cyclist. Obviously not all cyclists are particular ones I disagree with.
      - DANmode 6mo ago
        Parasites are more common than anyone’s comfortable with.
Ylpertnodi 7mo ago
> not clogging up a highway.

paulnpace 7mo ago

Years ago, SF pedestrians took care of this problem by punching bicyclists until they stopped riding their bicycles on the sidewalk.

angiolillo 7mo ago

> the "stronger" road user is at fault unless proven otherwise In general I agree with this, but a lot a lot depends on how "unless proven otherwise" is interpreted. If a driver is typically at fault when a pedestrian or cyclist unexpectedly moves into their path then it seems like that practically restricts cars to speeds close to biking or walking in many cities. Similarly, if a cyclist is typically at fault when a pedestrian unexpectedly moves into their path then it seems like that restricts bikes to speeds close to walking in many cities. This effectively pedestrianizes car lanes and bike lanes which would be lovely in some areas, but it also restricts travel to walking speeds which also has downsides if enforced across an entire city. Edit: after reading the post at https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-highway-code-8-changes-you-need-to-know-from-29-january-2022 https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-highway-code-8-change... the guidance seems to strike a reasonable balance: > People cycling, riding a horse or driving a horse-drawn vehicle should respect the safety of people walking in these spaces, but people walking should also take care not to obstruct or endanger them.

elAhmo 7mo ago

Writing as a regular cyclist, the other side is seemingly always the problem. Cars, cyclists, pedestrians, each of them thinks they are right and other side is wrong.

gs17 7mo ago
That seems to be exactly the case. As a pedestrian, my problem is the cyclists who think the sidewalk is for going faster than the speed limit and the bike lane is for pedestrians to dodge into. As a driver, it's cyclists who think "you can treat stop signs as yields if there's no traffic" means "stop signs are go signs, yield signs are go faster signs, there's no such thing as a red light". I'm sure if I biked, I'd be complaining about cars not seeing me and pedestrians being unpredictable and hogging the sidewalk. I'm sure if I was a train driver, I'd rant about cars blocking the tracks!
- dahart 7mo ago
  > yield signs are go faster signs Reminds me of a good line from Starman…

looperhacks 7mo ago

Two of the three clips clearly show a bike-lane blocked by pedestrians. The third looks like a shared space - but blocked in a way where it seems reasonable to ask for space by ringing the bell?