3 ms·

As in, htmx is better? I haven't used it but last I looked into it I was extremely confused as to whether it was a meme, an actual framework, or both.

mememememememo 6mo ago
None of the above. It is a utility (I guess framework maybe) for a feature that was cool in ASP.NET back in 2005. But that is it's charm. It is just JS swapping out the dom for you.
- recursive 6mo ago
  Not sure what you're thinking of, but the first release of HTMX was 2020. Its predecessor, intercooler, was first released in 2013.
  - mememememememo 6mo ago
    Yep but the idea goes back further. Memory is vague but this may have been it. https://www.ajaxtoolkit.net/DynamicPopulate/DynamicPopulate.aspx https://www.ajaxtoolkit.net/DynamicPopulate/DynamicPopulate....
0x457 6mo ago
HTMX is great when your web interface is just a representation of a server state. If web interface is an application backed by a remote state HTMX falls apart.
- nchmy 6mo ago
  can you give an example?
- ashwinsundar 6mo ago
  > If web interface is an application backed by a remote state What does that mean?
  - tancop 6mo ago
    anything where you need popups or tiled windows, code editing, rich text features more complex than "render markdown into a div", heavy content like videos, multiplayer, real time chat, anything that has to work offline... htmx is only good enough for something like a company homepage or simple shop not big complicated apps. its actually the same reason i dont like htmx, the whole "true REST" approach is about making everything depend more on the server with a thin client that can only do a couple very simple things with the loaded page. if your connection to that server is slow or unreliable your whole app breaks. its also the perfect opposite of "true web3" and ethereums original vision, where you load all static assets from ipfs, most app logic is client side and the server or blockchain only comes in (json api, no html fragments or full pages) when you need to interact with other users. still believe in it even after the crypto bros took the name for a bunch of scams and hosted everything on cloudflare anyway. the only thing they have in common i could find is no bundling but for different reasons - everything on server vs compiled libraries shared between apps.
    - blastslot 6mo ago
      [dead]
    - ashwinsundar 6mo ago
      This is a mix of specious, and just outright incorrect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop Here are a few brief replies: popups/tiling - use `<dialog>` real-time chat - use websockets slow/unreliable connections - well yeah this is a problem for any app...if you're delivering a 2MB paylaod to start the web app so that it doesn't need a connection, you're just betting that the user has a fast connection initially. what if that's not true either? back to square one. REST/Hypermedia encourages sending small payloads and working within those real constraints I have no idea what you're talking about with "true web3 and ethereum". HTMX has nothing to do with web3 or crypto.
  - 0x457 6mo ago
    Facebook, Spotify, Figma, really anything interactive beyond sending a simple form.

mememememememo 6mo ago

None of the above. It is a utility (I guess framework maybe) for a feature that was cool in ASP.NET back in 2005. But that is it's charm. It is just JS swapping out the dom for you.

recursive 6mo ago
Not sure what you're thinking of, but the first release of HTMX was 2020. Its predecessor, intercooler, was first released in 2013.
- mememememememo 6mo ago
  Yep but the idea goes back further. Memory is vague but this may have been it. https://www.ajaxtoolkit.net/DynamicPopulate/DynamicPopulate.aspx https://www.ajaxtoolkit.net/DynamicPopulate/DynamicPopulate....

0x457 6mo ago

HTMX is great when your web interface is just a representation of a server state. If web interface is an application backed by a remote state HTMX falls apart.

nchmy 6mo ago
can you give an example?
ashwinsundar 6mo ago
> If web interface is an application backed by a remote state What does that mean?
- tancop 6mo ago
  anything where you need popups or tiled windows, code editing, rich text features more complex than "render markdown into a div", heavy content like videos, multiplayer, real time chat, anything that has to work offline... htmx is only good enough for something like a company homepage or simple shop not big complicated apps. its actually the same reason i dont like htmx, the whole "true REST" approach is about making everything depend more on the server with a thin client that can only do a couple very simple things with the loaded page. if your connection to that server is slow or unreliable your whole app breaks. its also the perfect opposite of "true web3" and ethereums original vision, where you load all static assets from ipfs, most app logic is client side and the server or blockchain only comes in (json api, no html fragments or full pages) when you need to interact with other users. still believe in it even after the crypto bros took the name for a bunch of scams and hosted everything on cloudflare anyway. the only thing they have in common i could find is no bundling but for different reasons - everything on server vs compiled libraries shared between apps.
  - blastslot 6mo ago
    [dead]
  - ashwinsundar 6mo ago
    This is a mix of specious, and just outright incorrect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop Here are a few brief replies: popups/tiling - use `<dialog>` real-time chat - use websockets slow/unreliable connections - well yeah this is a problem for any app...if you're delivering a 2MB paylaod to start the web app so that it doesn't need a connection, you're just betting that the user has a fast connection initially. what if that's not true either? back to square one. REST/Hypermedia encourages sending small payloads and working within those real constraints I have no idea what you're talking about with "true web3 and ethereum". HTMX has nothing to do with web3 or crypto.
- 0x457 6mo ago
  Facebook, Spotify, Figma, really anything interactive beyond sending a simple form.